Testing for long line AND short line

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Testing for long line AND short line Empty Testing for long line AND short line

Post by Slartybartfast on 2/7/2019, 9:42 am

Looking at threads with test targets and people discussing testing techniques it seems that people are testing for one line at a time.

Why not set up paper at 50yd, 25yd, and 50ft and shoot through all three?

Just a thought exercise on how to test most efficiently if I ever take the step to loading. Or do what I should be doing to evaluate the ammo I do use if it ever seems that my performance might benefit.

Ideal setup IMO:
50yd range, ransom rest, three electronic scoring targets, labradar, computer to capture/record gun/ammo/velocities/POA/POI

Guess that's what the setup at Eley and other elite ammo manufacturers is like for when they match ammo to a firearm. Just this has the extra target distances.

But for the home reloader/tester, I don't think it would be too difficult to use a laser boresight to align paper targets on all distances.

At a well equipped range, it would be nice to see a way to quickly test a firearm and ammo combination. Have an objective way to put a box of ammo downrange and evaluate accuracy and required POA adjustments.

Surely even the 7yd and 15yd shooters could benefit from a range set up for this. IMO it would be invaluable as a tool for testing for firearms and ammunition reviews. But it seems the firearms industry (firearms and ammo) and consumers lack a general desire or demand for rigorous standardised (and published) testing.

On the recording/data gathering side of things, maybe someone should attempt to convince the developer of TargetScoringApp to develop a testing oriented version.
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Testing for long line AND short line Empty Re: Testing for long line AND short line

Post by Wobbley on 2/7/2019, 10:06 am

Slartybartfast wrote:Looking at threads with test targets and people discussing testing techniques it seems that people are testing for one line at a time.

Why not set up paper at 50yd, 25yd, and 50ft and shoot through all three?

Because the paper at one yard line disturbs the bullet for the next yard line.

Just a thought exercise on how to test most efficiently if I ever take the step to loading. Or do what I should be doing to evaluate the ammo I do use if it ever seems that my performance might benefit.

Choose a yardline (25 yards is a good distance) and shoot multiple groups of sufficiently large shot numbers.  The standard is 10 shots, but more can be learned with 15 shot groups.  Three of these gives statistically valid results.  Use the “mean radius” method of evaluation, sometimes it’s called “figure of merit”.  For ammo testing a machine rest is mandatory unless you have a purpose built ammo test gun built.  And ammo dispersion is linear with distance shot, GUN dispersion IS NOT!

Ideal setup IMO:
50yd range, ransom rest, three electronic scoring targets, labradar, computer to capture/record gun/ammo/velocities/POA/POI

Just one target.  Paper targets are fine and more accurate.

Guess that's what the setup at Eley and other elite ammo manufacturers is like for when they match ammo to a firearm. Just this has the extra target distances.

But for the home reloader/tester, I don't think it would be too difficult to use a laser boresight to align paper targets on all distances.

At a well equipped range, it would be nice to see a way to quickly test a firearm and ammo combination. Have an objective way to put a box of ammo downrange and evaluate accuracy and required POA adjustments.

Surely even the 7yd and 15yd shooters could benefit from a range set up for this. IMO it would be invaluable as a tool for testing for firearms and ammunition reviews. But it seems the firearms industry (firearms and ammo) and consumers lack a general desire or demand for rigorous standardised (and published) testing.

On the recording/data gathering side of things, maybe someone should attempt to convince the developer of TargetScoringApp to develop a testing oriented version.
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Post by Chris Miceli on 2/7/2019, 10:16 am

accuracy x did it in a video on facebook with a 45 shooting through a 25 yard and 50 yard target, also i believe eley uses electronic grids not paper.
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Testing for long line AND short line Empty Re: Testing for long line AND short line

Post by Slartybartfast on 2/7/2019, 10:37 am

Chris Miceli wrote:accuracy x did it in a video on facebook with a 45 shooting through a 25 yard and 50 yard target, also i believe eley uses electronic grids not paper.

I'm certain Eley uses an electronic scoring system. I've seen results posted online in forums that are printouts. 

Seems to me it's not very economical in time or ammo to test short and long line separately.

And all the firearms reviews, even if the tests are at very short range, all test different ranges separately. A little of time spent during setup results in more data.
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Post by james r chapman on 2/7/2019, 12:42 pm

I can just image a rem 148 hbwc with a .358 cardboard plug on its nose struggling to maintain its accuracy at 50 yards! Lol
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Post by LenV on 2/7/2019, 1:00 pm

If your interested in saving time and money then just test at 50 yds. If it is good there it is good at 25yd and 50ft. They don't spread apart then come back together. On a side note I have seen some pistols perform better (by hand) at 50yds then 25 yds. But it wasn't the pistol it was the scope. Parallax is not your friend at shorter distances.

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Post by gregbenner on 2/8/2019, 10:44 am

Ive been planning to do some 25yard RR testing for 32 long bullets. There seem to be only a limited number of bullets that will shoot accurately for the long line, there are a number of threads on this. However, the bullets to do this with are not easily/generally available, and for some (many?), a majority of shooting is done at 25. 

So, the plan is to compare some of the less accurate LL bullets at the the SL. I was thinking both swaged and cast bullets which I would reload, as well as some examples of factory loaded cartridges.

I’ve got RR inserts for my GSP, Pardini and Matchgun. Would be interested in any feedback or suggestions?


Ps. I will start a new thread on this, would like some input from 32 long shooters before I start.

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