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Arm fatigue?

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Slartybartfast
chopper
WillH
Jack H
kidneyboy
john bickar
mpolans
kjanracing
BE Mike
jglenn21
Hammer457
DGW
285wannab
dronning
farmboy
Bill Treanor
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Arm fatigue? Empty Arm fatigue?

Post by Bill Treanor Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:35 pm

I've noticed for a while that while shooting bullseye, my slow fire scores usually start off good and then (usually) start to go downhill. I've noticed, too, that my ability to hold steady during sustained fire starts to head downhill after the first couple of targets.

I know that I could dry fire some more, but does anyone have other suggestions about how I can increase my arm stamina? Maybe certain exercises or drills?

Thanks,

Bill

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Post by farmboy Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:03 pm

1st thing is to make sure your health is up to par.  When this happened to me it was heart health related. If health is fine then walking, core exercises and hold up a 5lb weight will all help.  Sugar can reduce stamina also.  Some times concentration waining is a culprit too.
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Post by dronning Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:47 pm

You raise and lower your arm/gun 30 times for slow fire and 12 times for sustained fire during a 900 match assuming you don't take any double or triple shots in slow fire and you have no alibis that's 42 times per 900 or a 126 for a 2700.  Granted this is spread out over the time it takes to complete a match but it gives you an idea how much you should be training.  

As farmboy stated concentration can really add to the fatigue.  So if you decide you need to do some dumbbell lifts, raise and hold for a count of 5 seconds, use the same stance you use when shooting.  While at the top of the hold focus at a point on the wall that is about the same level you would be shooting at to hold the weight to.  This should help stamina and concentration.  Start with 2lb to 5lb weight and a max of 10lb.  Do 10-15 reps per set, rest between sets and do a total of 3-5 sets.
- Dave
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Post by 285wannab Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:13 pm

It would be a good idea to work both sides, left and right to maintain balance.

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Post by dronning Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:18 pm

285wannab wrote:It would be a good idea to work both sides, left and right to maintain balance.
+1 and I'd add some planks to strengthen your core.
- Dave
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Post by DGW Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:30 pm

I found using a rubber ball, stand on one foot then bounce the ball from the right hand catch with the left then back. ten times. Then alternate standing on the opposite foot. Helps with balance hand eye coordination.

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Post by Hammer457 Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:44 pm

Take a look at isometric training also.  https://www.pardiniguns.com/isometric-training-pistol-shooting/

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Post by jglenn21 Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:46 am

I've found dry firing with a lead filled magazine helps. Double benfits
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Post by BE Mike Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:23 am

You need to eliminate the possibility of injury. Do you have any pain associated with shooting? If you have an underlying injury any exercise may exacerbate the problem. Tendonitis of my rotator cuff eliminated my competitive shooting.
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Post by kjanracing Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:05 pm

this might sound extreme, I do CrossFit 3 times/week and run or cycle a few times a week. Doing a hard workout Friday morning, then doing a 2700 Saturday morning, I feel very solid and connected. It isn't my body that gets tired. I'm working on the mental part...always.
Kurt
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Post by mpolans Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:24 pm

Might want to keep in mind, if you raise your gun above the target and come back down a little, you might want to do the same thing when you're working out.

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Post by john bickar Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:00 am

kjanracing wrote:this might sound extreme, I do CrossFit 3 times/week and run or cycle a few times a week. Doing a hard workout Friday morning, then doing a 2700 Saturday morning, I feel very solid and connected. It isn't my body that gets tired. I'm working on the mental part...always.
Kurt

How do you know if someone does Crossfit?

Don't worry; he'll tell you. Laughing
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Post by kidneyboy Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:47 am

Bill Treanor wrote:I've noticed for a while that while shooting bullseye, my slow fire scores usually start off good and then (usually) start to go downhill. I've noticed, too, that my ability to hold steady during sustained fire starts to head downhill after the first couple of targets.

I know that I could dry fire some more, but does anyone have other suggestions about how I can increase my arm stamina? Maybe certain exercises or drills?

Thanks,

Bill

 This might sound kinda simple - hold the gun out there more and for longer periods of time, dry fire more.  I got this tip from Rob Leatham.

 If you want to get better at holding a 2.5lb weight at arms length for longer periods of time, hold a 2.5lb weight at arms length for longer periods of time.

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Post by Jack H Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:22 am

I find the exercises a PT gives me using stretch rubber tubes are best.  When in my twentys, active tennis play helped even better, along with being in my 20s.  (almost 50 years ago)
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Post by WillH Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:15 am

One thing I have found that helps is to wear 2.5 lb wrist weights (i.e. kind that wrap around and secure with velcro) while doing dry firing drills.  I've found this makes the pistol seem lighter and a little steadier when doing live fire.  The other db exercises help as well but use of the wrist weights kinda allows dry fire to dual purpose when pressed for training time.  Disclaimer: I've yet to shoot a 2700 but training for it this spring.  There is something about long line SF that seems especially taxing compared to reduced target at 25 yds.

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Post by chopper Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:43 am

Jack H wrote:I find the exercises a PT gives me using stretch rubber tubes are best.  When in my twentys, active tennis play helped even better, along with being in my 20s.  (almost 50 years ago)
  I quit using my olympic weights about 30 years and went with the tubes because I worked out of town. The advantage for me was putting them in my grips (portability) and they were easier on my joints. For me, they were best for rehabbing my shoulder injury. If you want to build ultimate strength and muscle then free weights are the ticket along with proper nutrition and supplements. Bands will build muscle also and maintain what you, especially for older bodies, I like em.
Stan

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Post by john bickar Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:10 am

This thread has a bit more on PT: https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t11154-wobbel-area-reduction

Now that I am older and have a few rounds downrange, I find that PT - particularly upper body and core strength training - is one of my most critical training areas. Perhaps that's because it's one of the few things I can squeeze in regularly among the responsibilities of a family and a full-time job.

Regardless, a 2700 is a physical endurance event. You need to be in strong physical shape to clean the last .45 rapid fire target of a one-day 2700. And you need to clean that target if you want to accomplish your goals.

(Or at least I know that I know that I need to clean that target to accomplish my goals.)


Last edited by john bickar on Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:40 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : More context)
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Post by kjanracing Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:42 am

john bickar wrote:
kjanracing wrote:this might sound extreme, I do CrossFit 3 times/week and run or cycle a few times a week. Doing a hard workout Friday morning, then doing a 2700 Saturday morning, I feel very solid and connected. It isn't my body that gets tired. I'm working on the mental part...always.
Kurt

How do you know if someone does Crossfit?

Don't worry; he'll tell you. Laughing
I’m a 7 time Ironman finisher too. I just had to tell you about triathlon!
Kurt
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Post by Bill Treanor Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:12 am

Thank you all for the great info!

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Post by Slartybartfast Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:43 pm

I need to get my scores up before worrying about arm fatigue bringing them down.  Laughing

With my rather scatter brained approach to shooting, the strain over time wasn't evident to me until I acquired a Drulov 75 bolt action pistol. I shoot a 60 shot target over an hour and a half and I was stunned at how much the muscles in my arm and shoulder burned by the end of it.

Thanks for the suggestions here. They're now officially on my list of "Things I need to do if I'm taking this seriously".
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Post by Jwhelan939 Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:29 pm

jglenn21 wrote:I've found  dry firing with a lead filled magazine helps. Double benfits

Does anyone sell a lead filled magazine?

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Post by zanemoseley Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:46 pm

Find someone local to pour and old mag full of lead for you. I filled an entire AR stock once for a long range AR I built.

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Post by Wobbley Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:49 pm

Or just get an old mag body and fill it with a mix of epoxy and birdshot.  Or fill it with dummies made from 230 grain ball.
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Post by Aprilian Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:41 am

Or do as I did, take a non primed case, insert a 185gr lead button nose backwards and then put a second bullet over it correct way.   They fit in the magazine and the magazine is still usable later if I need it.   I had 8 of those dummies in a mag for about an 8 oz kicker for holding and dry firing drills.
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