First Bullseye Match

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Post by mikemyers on 2/24/2019, 3:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

I have had today marked on my schedule for weeks, the first Bullseye Match (sort of) I have gone to.  My club, Hollywood Rifle and Pistol Club, puts on a monthly Bullseye Match.  It's split in two sections, depending on how many hands you want to use.  I've been practicing with my Model 41, using the Aimpoint 9000sc for a while, then deciding it was heavier than I liked, especially if I wanted to shoot one handed.  So I took that sight off, and mounted the Aimpoint H2 yesterday, sighted it in, then just relaxed until today.  Still wasn't sure if I really wanted to try one handed, but between you guys, and Dave Salyer, decided (if I didn't chicken out) to do the real thing.

Got there what I thought was early this morning (8am, for.a 10am match) but everyone was already there - the place was packed.  I wandered over to the much less crowded one-hand section, and talk a table.  Then people started coming up to me, asking if I really wanted to shoot at 50 yards with one hand?  Once I answered "yes", I was committed.  It turns out there were 28 shooters in the two-hand group, and five of us in the Bullseye group.

I reminded myself to treat the match like "organized practice", NOT a competition.  If I did have a goal, it was not to finish last, but even that was a minor goal.  I decided I'd just shoot the way I normally do, and things would work out one way or another.


Now that it's over, my thoughts.  

  • First, all the "jitters" and "nerves" vanish when you're just shooting for fun.  With a few minor exceptions, everything about the match was great!  When I wasn't sure what to do next, the guys around me helped out.  
  • Scoring - I started out scoring like I do with my own targets at the end of the day.  Wrong!!!  Eventually the guys got me straightened out.  I should find an article on how to properly score. 
  • Preparation - I tried to be prepared ahead of time, magazines loaded, everything in its place, and everything not needed off my table.  That made life easier for me.  
  • Time....    in the slow fire sections, I tried to aim carefully, but I finished much too soon.  I guess I should force myself to take longer, paying a bit more attention to EVERY shot.  On the faster sections, I struggled to keep up.  I finally gave up, and shot the way Dave Salyer taught me, get the wobble zone over the bullseye, and carefully fire.  Doing things that way I always beat the buzzer, but quite often I felt rushed, shooting before I was really ready.  I figured a mediocre shot is better than a carefully aimed shot that happens after the targets are already closing.  
  • Fun....   I was having a great time.  The advice from so many people here in the forum really, REALLY helped.  I wasn't shooting as well as I would have liked, but especially for one hand, I was shooting FAR better than I ever thought I could.  I had a great time.  I plan to make it to a lot more matches, and join the Bullseye group each time.
  • Gear...   The Model 41 was beautiful.  It's great when you trust something to just work.  If I did my part, it always did it's part.  Not a single problem all day.


When the dust settled, I finished second in the Bullseye group.

Goals for next time, and from now on, I'll try to make every match I can.  For starters, my beautiful Hogue wood grips just are NOT comfortable with one hand.  I bought a pair of custom fitted wood grips in this forum a few weeks ago, they are now back on my gun.  I should have brought them today.  Next, I need to learn how to handle time better.  I shot faster than I needed to on the slow sections, and not as fast as I should have on the faster sections.  A good bit of that is wasted time getting the red dot into the sight area.  I guess that's just practice.  Guns - I have two, my High Standard, and the S&W.  Considering that I haven't had a single issue with the Model 41 in ages, that will be my choice.  I meant to clean it before the match, but someone here said that was a terrible idea - so next time, I'll clean it a week before the match, then practice during the week.  Muffs - the Howard Leight Impact Pro muffs were great - I turned up the volume to the maximum level, and I could hear everything going on around me, but the gun was still super quiet.  It's only a 22, but I was very pleased - no ear plugs under the muffs, as when I do that, I can't hear the range commands so well.  Dots - Jon's advice about focusing on the dot helped a lot, once the dot was there to see.  I guess if I practice enough, my gun will come up in front of me lined up correctly.  I still need to ask at what moment I'm allowed to raise my gun - can I get the dot centered over the target, before the target rotates?

And if I didn't say it clearly enough up above, maybe I'm slow to learn, and sometimes even slower to understand, but the help people were giving me in the 'fundamentals forum' last year really helped out.  I've still got a long ways to go, but today went better than I dared hope it might.  Most of the holes in the black, at a range of 50 yards, is something I may have hoped for, but never expected to actually do.  Thanks!!

One snapshot from today, and a photo of the results:

First Bullseye Match - Page 2 Img_1516

First Bullseye Match - Page 2 Img_1514
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Post by BE Mike on 2/27/2019, 8:27 am

mikemyers wrote:
BE Mike wrote:.........Here's a hint from an old "has been". A stop watch during slow fire will keep you calm.....
I will try that.  Do you set it to time a little less than what you're allowed, so you have a warning when time is about to run out?
It is a very little thing, but I always thought that a timer/stopwatch counting down, increased tension more than one counting up. My goal was to stay positive. A timer is probably at its best when windy conditions during slow fire make one shoot during lulls. It always put my mind more at ease to know how much time I had left.
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Post by mikemyers on 2/28/2019, 7:39 am

I used to score targets with a ruler, measuring the group size.  Then I started using CEP, which gave a mathematical value, what group size would 90% (or whatever) percent of my shots fall within.  Then I got involved in Bullseye.  Several people tried to explain scoring to me, but I must be a slow learner.  At this match, I had to learn it, so now I've got the general idea.  I figured it would be good if I start scoring all my practice targets the same way, until I can do it in my sleep.

To make it easier, I created a 'pdf' file for Avery #5160 labels, with the same box configuration where we fill in the data at matches.  My plan is to print out a sheet of the Avery #5160 labels, stick one of these stickers on the target, and score it properly.  I'm sure almost everyone in this forum already knows how to do it, but for anyone just learning, here's a link to the 'pdf' file.  Just download it, and print it on an Avery 51560 label, and you'll have stickers for 30 targets.  If you keep your old targets, like I do, file it away with the sticker.  The labels are just generic labels that can be used for 1, 2, or 3 strings.  (Or, to save paper, you could shoot 20, or even 30 shots at a target, fill in the boxes, and add them up.)

Download file:  
http://www.sgrid.com/2019/Avery5160EasyPeelAddressLabels.pdf
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Post by DA/SA on 2/28/2019, 8:07 am

My old targets are history and get torn off and scraped, and mentally erased.

The new target is a clean sheet to start fresh and visualize all X,s.

Don't dwell on the past...

Even during a match I have no idea what my score is and don't care until it's over.

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Post by mikemyers on 2/28/2019, 8:53 am

I agree with the second part.

As to the first, I have targets going back many, many years.  I enjoy seeing how things have improved over time.  Also, while everything is still fresh in my mind, I find it useful to figure out what I might have done wrong, and make changes to help.  Even when there's no target, as in dry-firing, I learn what not to do every time something goes wrong.  As a recent example, by trying to hold my gun in several different, but similar, ways, I found the one spot to put my fingers that causes the least disturbance when I fire.  I also deliberately put my fingers back in the "wrong" place, and could repeat what was going wrong.  Finally, by posting my "bad" targets here a couple of years ago, I got some very useful feedback about things I wasn't doing as well as I could, after understanding the feedback and "why" I was doing something poorly.

Yeah, you're right - and I'm starting to throw out a lot of those old targets lately.  I know people here agree with you, to ignore the bad, and concentrate on the good, but my mind doesn't work that way.  To me, by eliminating things that are wrong, I'm more likely to improve.  Heck, all it takes is to put my trigger finger 1/8" too far in or out, and the gun reacts accordingly.  Having found the one spot that allows the dot to stay still, I learned to do that on purpose every time.



The reason for the stickers is very different.  I need to learn how to quickly score targets, making no mistakes.  The best way I learn something is by doing it.  I'm not making the stickers so I know how well I did, or didn't do - I know that just by looking at the target.  I'm doing it so that at the next match, I can do it quickly and properly.  By the time I score a dozen targets, I'll. have it down pat.  Then it's just double checking my addition.
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Post by Dr.Don on 2/28/2019, 9:05 am

Unless the shots are all over the place, it is usually much easier to count the points dropped and subtract from 100.
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Post by mikemyers on 2/28/2019, 10:31 am

Dr.Don wrote:Unless the shots are all over the place, it is usually much easier to count the points dropped and subtract from 100.
Bingo!!   Like I said, I've been doing it the hard way, forever.  It seems everyone at the match did/does what you just said.  
So put an X (or more) for all holes in the X ring, then as many 10's as needed for those holes, then the 9's, and so on.  Sounds obvious now.  It sure wasn't obvious to me before.
They told me to start at 12:00, then go counter-clockwise for counting holes, one ring at a time.
They also told me to ignore the X's, and the 10's in counting up the score, and for each 9 to subtract 1 from 100, then for the 8's 2 from the remaining total, and so on.

Reminds me of the saying "Anything is easy to do, once you know how to do it."      :-)
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Post by james r chapman on 2/28/2019, 1:16 pm

I just shoot between 2 high masters, Ezzy peezy scoring lol
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Post by DA/SA on 2/28/2019, 1:36 pm

How do you verify ten rounds when they are all squeezed into the X? Wink

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Post by james r chapman on 2/28/2019, 3:12 pm

By reading the rules! Lol

Honesty and integrity of the shooter.

It’s even worse in PPC where up to 30 rounds are fired on a target!!
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Post by troystaten on 4/14/2019, 3:54 pm

Looks like you did great and had a fun time.  I shot an air pistol match for the first time a month ago.  Scoring was easy as they had us shoot 1 shot per target:) Total of 60 targets.

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Post by Slartybartfast on 4/15/2019, 10:51 am

mikemyers wrote:To make it easier, I created a 'pdf' file for Avery #5160 labels, with the same box configuration where we fill in the data at matches.
Club I was a member at had a rubber self-inking stamp that was very useful. Until some member walked off with it.
They bought a replacement, but the only ones now available are huge. The one they originally had was on 1/2 inch or so wide.
(https://www.bullseyegear.com/bullseyegear/bullseye-target-scoring-stamp.html)

Having a custom one made and available wouldn't be that difficult to set up.

The stickers seem to be a good option. I'd only suggest that you change it to a thinner sticker and have only one scoring row as they are used per target. Just write S, T, or R at beginning or have letters to circle or boxes to check
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Post by mikemyers on 4/15/2019, 2:18 pm

I did make a label, but will revise it as you suggested.
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Post by 310yuma on 4/15/2019, 2:33 pm

That was my home range  many years ago, doesn't look like the  benches have changed, you need to get there early and get one on the right side of the post,still not a lot of room but better than the left side. 
Back then  they ran a 2700 once a month  and it was very well  attended ,but bullseye was strong back then

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Post by mikemyers on 4/15/2019, 11:41 pm

I wish I had been involved back then.  Somehow I never learned about Bullseye, and just went to various ranges punching holes in paper.  Agreed about the right side.  I wish they would hold a 2700 every so often, but I'll happily settle for what they're doing now.

Back then, I could have found a real coach, too.  Now my coach is this forum.
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Post by john bickar on 4/16/2019, 8:58 pm

Congrats and good shooting!
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Post by carykiteboarder on 4/17/2019, 7:11 am

One more suggestion for scoring a competitor at a match...
When noting the shot values on the score card, start from the outer rings and work inward.  Once in a while you will not be reminded that the shooter had an alibi.  You should have noticed when you counted for 10 holes but...  If you do it this way, when you realize there are too many holes, the scores you wrote on the card will stay.  If there were not enough holes, you'll finish with M's.  If there were the right number of holes you'll only mark the remaining shots needed to score the lowest 10.  This minimizes mark-through corrections.  Match directors/statisticians appreciate tidy and well marked cards!

Many competitors prefer to see their X's and 10's on the left.  Therefore, I start recording the lowest value shots on the right of the card and work left.  Hope this helps.
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Post by mikemyers on 4/17/2019, 9:47 am

At first that sounds backwards, but I do understand (finally).  I was told to do it the other way, starting with X, then 10, then 9, and so on.  That means the "M" (miss?) if any will be at the left side.

I'll see what the guys at the range say.
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Post by carykiteboarder on 4/17/2019, 4:23 pm

If you properly count the holes and know the alibi count, you start with the M's on the right.  Then work your way inward until you have the right number of shots.  This technique helps when you DON"T do it right and start scoring shots until you finally realize there are too many holes.  This will minimize the number of mark-through corrections you need to make. If you start from the center and work your way out, you will always have recorded the shot values that will be thrown out in an alibi. If it doesn't work for you, OK.

When you finish a 900 score sheet, take a last look and decide what you would think if you had to enter the data into a spreadsheet.  If it's clear and legible, you've done it right!


Last edited by carykiteboarder on 4/17/2019, 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add clarification)
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Post by Aprilian on 4/17/2019, 9:15 pm

It seems easy for me to know when the person to my left has shot an alibi string.  Even if I too am shooting the same refire string.

The interesting thing some people told me is that I should not volunteer how many total shots I got off and leave it to the scorer to figure out.   I totally ignore that suggestion as I'm competing against myself first and then seeing how I did in the pack.
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Post by john bickar on 4/18/2019, 12:52 am

carykiteboarder wrote:When you finish a 900 score sheet, take a last look and decide what you would think if you had to enter the data into a spreadsheet.  If it's clear and legible, you've done it right!

Come on, stat monkeys aren't people. It's our privilege as shooters to make as big of a mess of scorecards as we want to! Laughing
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Post by john bickar on 4/18/2019, 12:56 am

(And then I return to my Wednesday night activity of deciphering bullseye scorecards...)
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