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Post by robvasi on 2/27/2019, 10:20 am

What are the advantages and disadvantages of the use of a revolver in bullseye shooting?

One is rapid fire, Would moon clips compensate for this problem?

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Post by zanemoseley on 2/27/2019, 10:27 am

Moon clips only speed up the reloading process. The main drawback is having to either thumb cock the pistol or having to fire double action for timed and rapid fire. In a standard bullseye match a revolver is not competitive unless you practice a LOT to overcome its disadvantages. Going for distinguished revolver is another story. 

Most people I see shooting revolvers in a standard match are just doing it for fun and have no expectations of winning. You need to determine what your goals are in bullseye, everyone shoots for fun but are you shooting to obtain your highest score or shoot the guns you find most interesting.


Last edited by zanemoseley on 2/27/2019, 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by joy2shoot on 2/27/2019, 10:46 am

I would be curious to know if it can be easier on recoil since you only need enough powder to get the bullet out the muzzle and down range.  With a pistol, you need that plus enough energy to compress the recoil spring, the main spring, move the slide and possibly scope back.  And there is no additional momentum caused by a slide going back into battery.

Every now and then I think about using a .45 ACP revolver in BE matches ...  but with no expectation of improving scores.

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Post by fc60 on 2/27/2019, 11:09 am

Greetings,

Back in 2005-2006 when I peaked, I shot a 625 45ACP revolver for the 45 portion of the match.

Bashfully, I did have an Aimpoint MagDot mounted on it.

I managed to shoot 2605 and 2607 those years.

I thumb cocked the hammer and you get accustomed to the process during sustained fire. My best target was 100X8 Rapid Fire.

A plus is your brass is easy to locate after the string.

Another plus is you rarely have an alibi.

I used full moon clips. I loaded all the clips prior to the match and carried them in a used Shot Bag. The bag was then used to gather the fired cases/clips.

The H&G #78 bullet was my favorite. My load shot inside the ten ring at 50 yards via the Random Rest.

The major downside was cleaning. I would take it apart completely and stick everything in my Ultrasonic cleaner. The Lead fouling in the cylinders and barrel became more manageable.

For 22 and CF, I used a Haemmerli SP-20, with an Aimpoint 3000.

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by SteveT on 2/27/2019, 12:25 pm

Revolver Advantages:
S&W triggers are much easier to clean up and often pretty good from the start. No expensive trigger job needed. I have no experience with other brands, but believe they would be similar.

Much cheaper to get 50 yd accuracy and often pretty good from the factory. It might take a little more work on your part tuning reloads to the gun and keeping it clean, but no need to have an experienced gunsmith with a whole machine shop to get a 10 ring (or better) gun.

The sights/scope are attached directly to the barrel. It will shoot where the sights point.

You can load as light as you want, until the bullets bounce off the paper (it's been done).

Forget about malfunctions. Light hammer strikes when you try to reduce trigger weight (there are better ways to do it than loosening the screw!) and owners doing stupid things are about the only things that can go wrong.

There are a lot fewer bright shiny geegaws advertised for revolver you will be less tempted to constantly change things and more likely to get it set up and just go shoot.

Moon-clips are cheaper than magazines, so get 18 of them and load 'em up for the whole match before you leave the house.

No brass pickup.

People will look at you in awe if you are good at it.

Revolver Disadvantages:
You have to cock the hammer or pull through a long double action trigger. Both can be learned and can be done successfully, but it's much easier to just pull the trigger of a semi-auto. If you don't do it right it can throw the shot WAY wide, so there may be more feedback when you do it wrong and more pride when you do it right (maybe an advantage?)

You gotta keep them clean. Lead in the forcing cone will kill accuracy.

You may want to (have to?) test each chamber and shoot 50 yards from the most accurate.

There are a lot fewer grip options. Unless your wrist is made for the funny (IMO) revolver grip, you may need to modify the grip to suit you.

There are a lot fewer bright shiny geegaws advertised for revolver if you are the type of person who constantly changes things.

Loading is slower unless you use speed loaders or Moon-clips.

People will look at you funny and ask why.
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Post by 243winxb on 2/27/2019, 6:45 pm

In precision pistol,  your placed in a classifications by you ability.

  If your score is lower using a revolver, its not a problem, unless you fall in  the  High Master class, where 1x or 1 point makes a big difference. 

Only draw back i run into was , the range office doesn't give you enough time to reload. Magazines are much faster.

When ask "is the line loaded" yell , "not loaded" lol.  When the Range Officer see , the revolver, you should get more time.

Revolvers are fun, but using the 45 acp auto in center fire,  lets you get a better zero for the 45 event. Think practice in center fire.
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Post by LenV on 2/27/2019, 9:03 pm

Steve T says

   "There are a lot fewer bright shiny geegaws advertised for revolver if you are the type of person who constantly changes things."


I think that is a pretty fair description of my personal quirks. My guns can all be considered "Mr Potato Head". There really are enough geegaws to keep a person happy swapping things around. I shoot revolver a lot. Not when it counts for Regionals or State but enough of the time that no one is surprised when I show up at a match with a couple of them. Wheel guns are just plain fun.


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Post by robvasi on 3/1/2019, 2:17 am

"Thank you!" to everyone.

I read though each reply a few times and now have a thorough understanding of the pros and cons of revolver shooting. 

During this time my customized Ruger had been to a gunsmith for parts installation and worked for less than 50 rounds, then stopped working.  I thought I could fix it and in the process the pin that holds the sear slipped out.  I am now left with a lower frame and a handful of small parts and several springs.  I doubt if I can get it back together.

Wednesday I took my revolver to the range.  No issues, none.  When I pulled the trigger the gun fired, every time.  No brass to pick up.  I took it home and cleaned it, a pleasure compared to my semi-automatic. 

I won't win with with either one, I am a new to this.  I will enjoy shooting with a revolver.

Which revolver?  Not sure yet.

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Post by joy2shoot on 3/1/2019, 7:05 am

robvasi wrote:... I am a new to this.  I will enjoy shooting with a revolver.
Welcome to the sport and best of luck.

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Post by Wobbley on 3/1/2019, 9:15 am

robvasi wrote:"Thank you!" to everyone.

I read though each reply a few times and now have a thorough understanding of the pros and cons of revolver shooting. .

Which revolver?  Not sure yet.

The consensus appears to be
S&W 14 6 inch,
S&W 586 or 686
 and
If you shoot single action
Colt Python, Colt Officers Model Match, Colt 357.  These  Colts are more accurate out of the box than mortals need.

For 45 
S&W 25-2 or 625 45ACP preferred
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Post by David R on 3/1/2019, 10:49 am

A couple years ago I bought a used 4" smith and Wesson 15-3 38 revolver with adjustable sights.  I now have a Burris FF III sight on it.    Last check at 25 yards it's consistently  put 5 HBWC in .9" resting on bags.   I did nothing to the gun.   Most any K frame 38 should be good.

I don't compete a lot with it, but when I do, I shoot Rapid fire DA.

I DO shoot steel bowling pins with it  most every week in the summer.

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Post by LenV on 3/1/2019, 12:30 pm

I know Colts shoot nice. I have watched others use them. They just don't fit my hand. Smith 17, 14-6 and 25-2. Problem solved. Laughing 

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Post by davidbullseye on 3/1/2019, 4:38 pm

Len, 

Very nice, and thanks for the model 52 grips. 

Which weaver mount would fit my 25-2?  I don't have it with me but I assume it is the standard three mounting holes.  Would one of Weigand in PA mounts work.  

David

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Post by LenV on 3/1/2019, 6:57 pm

Well yes and no. The 25-2 does not come drilled and tapped. I need to correct what I had earlier here. I did use a weaver mount and drilled all three holes and tapped for this pistol. I only used 2 holes on a K frame one time.

Len


Last edited by LenV on 3/1/2019, 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correction on two or three holes.)
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Post by Steve K on 3/1/2019, 7:00 pm

Thanks for the inspiration. I enjoy my S&W 617, S&W 14, and S&W 16. Since reading the comments about using a revolver for Bullseye I bought a S&W 25-2. Does anyone have pet loads for the 25-2?

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Post by Wobbley on 3/1/2019, 7:06 pm

Same as for the automatics.  Powder type and actual charge might vary.  Handloader magazine did a “Pet Loads” article on the Auto Rim cartridge and reported best accuracy with 4.5 Titegroup.  But the bullets that shoot best will be the same.

This target was shot with my 25-2.  3.8 BE with a 200 grain Bear Creek, fired during practice. pros and cons of revolvers for bullseye shooting 9c0fb110
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Post by joy2shoot on 3/1/2019, 7:22 pm

Wobbley wrote:...  Handloader magazine did a “Pet Loads” article on the Auto Rim cartridge and reported best accuracy with 4.5 Titegroup... 

Do you recall what bullet they tested with (type, weight, etc)?  And was the gun a 25-2, or a 625, or something else?   Thanks.

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Post by LenV on 3/1/2019, 7:53 pm

Wobbley nailed it with the comment about automatics. I use the same loads for the 25-2 as my SL loads for the 1911. My two favorite loads "were" 3.8gr BE with a 200gr LSWC from T&B or 3.8gr BE with the 185gr from T&B. I have been playing around with Zero/Magnus 185gr LSWCHP which is softer(swagged)and seems to be more accurate. I don't like ammo that is made for different guns (1911/25-2) that won't run in both guns. That would be confusing at times.

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Last edited by LenV on 3/2/2019, 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : can't type)
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Post by joy2shoot on 3/1/2019, 9:07 pm

LenV wrote:... I use the same loads for he 25-2 as my SL loads for the 1911 ...
Wouldn't the recoil be 'stronger' in a revolver since there is no recoil spring, main spring, slide, etc to absorb some of the energy?  I would have assumed you could go to much lighter loads in a revolver.  Using the same load between revolver and pistol would make reloading easier, but I am trying to understand recoil difference.  Maybe I should start a new post....

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Post by Keyholed on 3/2/2019, 12:20 am

joy2shoot wrote:
LenV wrote:... I use the same loads for he 25-2 as my SL loads for the 1911 ...
Wouldn't the recoil be 'stronger' in a revolver since there is no recoil spring, main spring, slide, etc to absorb some of the energy?  I would have assumed you could go to much lighter loads in a revolver.  Using the same load between revolver and pistol would make reloading easier, but I am trying to understand recoil difference.  Maybe I should start a new post....

I typically find it to be just the opposite. A Springfield RO in .45 ACP weighs 40 ounces, pretty much the same as a .45 ACP S&W 625 in 5". The difference is that when firing, the 1911 is going to have the slide banging back and forth--sure, it absorbs some energy from the cartridge, but it moves. Motion = recoil. Remember that the springs don't really lessen recoil, because your hand has to resist that force. All they do, depending on a whole bunch of factors, is redistribute it.

The 625, on the other hand, is just 40 ounces of recoil-dampening inertia. About the only thing you can say is that the lack of a slide means the muzzle has a tendency to stay high after firing.

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Post by LenV on 3/2/2019, 1:40 am

I know the common thinking is that revolvers are neat because you can load them as low as you want because they don't have to make the slide operate. That is true as far as it goes. The fact that the revolver is heavier as mentioned above also helps with felt recoil. However the biggy for me is accuracy. When the velocity gets too low I can't hit anything with a revolver. The recoil dynamics, physics whatever of that bullet going out that 6.5 inch barrel are interesting. Black powder shooters know all about follow thru. Shooting a long barreled revolver puts you into the same territory. I found that keeping it up to those higher (3.8gr) loads is something I can also keep on call. Everyone is different. Your perfect load might be a lot lighter to go with your rock hard grip. 

Len

The 25-2 weighs in a tad more than 40oz (with matchdot)
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Post by Jack H on 3/2/2019, 3:18 am

My 1955 model shoots x ring at 50yds with rimmed cases, 200 JSWC, and 4.8 BE. 

I can't help but post this picture of offhand target again.
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Post by robvasi on 3/2/2019, 6:54 am

SteveT wrote:Revolver Advantages:
S&W triggers are much easier to clean up and often pretty good from the start. No expensive trigger job needed. I have no experience with other brands, but believe they would be similar.

Much cheaper to get 50 yd accuracy and often pretty good from the factory. It might take a little more work on your part tuning reloads to the gun and keeping it clean, but no need to have an experienced gunsmith with a whole machine shop to get a 10 ring (or better) gun.

The sights/scope are attached directly to the barrel. It will shoot where the sights point.

You can load as light as you want, until the bullets bounce off the paper (it's been done).

Forget about malfunctions. Light hammer strikes when you try to reduce trigger weight (there are better ways to do it than loosening the screw!) and owners doing stupid things are about the only things that can go wrong.

There are a lot fewer bright shiny geegaws advertised for revolver you will be less tempted to constantly change things and more likely to get it set up and just go shoot.

Moon-clips are cheaper than magazines, so get 18 of them and load 'em up for the whole match before you leave the house.

No brass pickup.

People will look at you in awe if you are good at it.

Revolver Disadvantages:
You have to cock the hammer or pull through a long double action trigger. Both can be learned and can be done successfully, but it's much easier to just pull the trigger of a semi-auto. If you don't do it right it can throw the shot WAY wide, so there may be more feedback when you do it wrong and more pride when you do it right (maybe an advantage?)

You gotta keep them clean. Lead in the forcing cone will kill accuracy.

You may want to (have to?) test each chamber and shoot 50 yards from the most accurate.

There are a lot fewer grip options. Unless your wrist is made for the funny (IMO) revolver grip, you may need to modify the grip to suit you.

There are a lot fewer bright shiny geegaws advertised for revolver if you are the type of person who constantly changes things.

Loading is slower unless you use speed loaders or Moon-clips.

People will look at you funny and ask why.
I read this post several times. Thank you for your clear and concise reply.  I watched a video on how to clean the forcing cone.  I am a bit puzzled by the "test each chamber" statement.  How is this done? The irony is that my upgraded Mark IV is now a not working and I have handful of small parts to reinstall.  I don't mind if people look at and wonder why.  I just need to figure out how to dress like a 'revolver guy'

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Post by robvasi on 3/2/2019, 6:59 am

LenV wrote:I know the common thinking is that revolvers are neat because you can load them as low as you want because they don't have to make the slide operate. That is true as far as it goes. The fact that the revolver is heavier as mentioned above also helps with felt recoil. However the biggy for me is accuracy. When the velocity gets too low I can't hit anything with a revolver. The recoil dynamics, physics whatever of that bullet going out that 6.5 inch barrel are interesting. Black powder shooters know all about follow thru. Shooting a long barreled revolver puts you into the same territory. I found that keeping it up to those higher (3.8gr) loads is something I can also keep on call. Everyone is different. Your perfect load might be a lot lighter to go with your rock hard grip. 

Len

The 25-2 weighs in a tad more than 40oz (with matchdot)
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Your post is appreciated.  I admit this is something I had not considered.  I thought a longer barrel is more accurate.  I grasp the concept of load, could you expand on how barrel length fits into the equation?

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Post by robvasi on 3/2/2019, 7:00 am

zanemoseley wrote:Moon clips only speed up the reloading process. The main drawback is having to either thumb cock the pistol or having to fire double action for timed and rapid fire. In a standard bullseye match a revolver is not competitive unless you practice a LOT to overcome its disadvantages. Going for distinguished revolver is another story. 

Most people I see shooting revolvers in a standard match are just doing it for fun and have no expectations of winning. You need to determine what your goals are in bullseye, everyone shoots for fun but are you shooting to obtain your highest score or shoot the guns you find most interesting.

This is fine with me, I just like to shoot revolvers. 

and I can collect the brass and get money for it at the local reload shop.

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