pros and cons of revolvers for bullseye shooting

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Post by robvasi on 2/27/2019, 10:20 am

First topic message reminder :

What are the advantages and disadvantages of the use of a revolver in bullseye shooting?

One is rapid fire, Would moon clips compensate for this problem?

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Post by robvasi on 3/2/2019, 7:06 am

fc60 wrote:Greetings,

Back in 2005-2006 when I peaked, I shot a 625 45ACP revolver for the 45 portion of the match.

Bashfully, I did have an Aimpoint MagDot mounted on it.

I managed to shoot 2605 and 2607 those years.

I thumb cocked the hammer and you get accustomed to the process during sustained fire. My best target was 100X8 Rapid Fire.

A plus is your brass is easy to locate after the string.

Another plus is you rarely have an alibi.

I used full moon clips. I loaded all the clips prior to the match and carried them in a used Shot Bag. The bag was then used to gather the fired cases/clips.

The H&G #78 bullet was my favorite. My load shot inside the ten ring at 50 yards via the Random Rest.

The major downside was cleaning. I would take it apart completely and stick everything in my Ultrasonic cleaner. The Lead fouling in the cylinders and barrel became more manageable.

For 22 and CF, I used a Haemmerli SP-20, with an Aimpoint 3000.

Cheers,

D
Did you cock the hammer with your shooting hand?  I have been cocking with my non-shooting hand. 

I am glad you mentioned Aimpoint.  I bought one and now I need to decide to install it on the revolver I plan to use in the centerfire, or on my rim fire gun.  I am leaning to have it on the center-fire.

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Post by robvasi on 3/2/2019, 7:12 am

243winxb wrote:In precision pistol,  your placed in a classifications by you ability.

  If your score is lower using a revolver, its not a problem, unless you fall in  the  High Master class, where 1x or 1 point makes a big difference. 

Only draw back i run into was , the range office doesn't give you enough time to reload. Magazines are much faster.

When ask "is the line loaded" yell , "not loaded" lol.  When the Range Officer see , the revolver, you should get more time.

Revolvers are fun, but using the 45 acp auto in center fire,  lets you get a better zero for the 45 event. Think practice in center fire.
Yesterday I received a draft copy of how the event will be run.  for rapid fire, there will be two strings of five shots and time to reload.  I will use a speedloader so it wont take much time. 

I was at the range a few hours this with minimal improvement, I don't expect gains in one day, but I like to come up with a slight improvement every week.  As I pondered this, the conclusion I reached was that I am not able to establish and maintain a consistent sight picture.  Progressive lenses donn't work for handgun shooting.  I think if I can find a solution then I will see an improvement.

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Post by robvasi on 3/2/2019, 7:20 am

Wobbley wrote:
robvasi wrote:"Thank you!" to everyone.

I read though each reply a few times and now have a thorough understanding of the pros and cons of revolver shooting. .

Which revolver?  Not sure yet.

The consensus appears to be
S&W 14 6 inch,
S&W 586 or 686
 and
If you shoot single action
Colt Python, Colt Officers Model Match, Colt 357.  These  Colts are more accurate out of the box than mortals need.

For 45 
S&W 25-2 or 625 45ACP preferred


For center-fire: Smith and Wesson 686 
For rim-fire:  I have yet decided.


Last edited by robvasi on 3/3/2019, 5:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Wobbley on 3/2/2019, 11:50 am

joy2shoot wrote:
Wobbley wrote:...  Handloader magazine did a “Pet Loads” article on the Auto Rim cartridge and reported best accuracy with 4.5 Titegroup... 

Do you recall what bullet they tested with (type, weight, etc)?  And was the gun a 25-2, or a 625, or something else?   Thanks.
They used Oregon Trail 200 gr Cast SWC  and the revolver was a 1955 Target with .454 throats.  

In these revolvers use bullets of at least the bearing length of a 200 SWC cast bullet.  The 230 hardball does not.  In a larger throat diameter these bullets tip before they enter the forcing cone.
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Post by Keyholed on 3/2/2019, 4:07 pm

robvasi wrote:I thought a longer barrel is more accurate.  I grasp the concept of load, could you expand on how barrel length fits into the equation?

Longer barrels aren't necessarily more accurate. Sometimes you see them used in other sports for increased velocity, and other times for sight radius.

When Len refers to barrel length, he's referring to how long the bullet is in the barrel, and the need to maintain your fundamentals until the bullet can exit the muzzle. There are other examples of the phenomena at work as well--lightly-loaded ammunition having a higher point of impact, bullets of different weights having different POIs, etc.

Len--I'm just going off factory specs for bare guns, no optics, etc. It actually doesn't matter: the point is that the pistol is going to have a large chunk of its mass whamming back and forth. Understanding that they're similar in weight illuminates the point.

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Post by WesG on 3/3/2019, 12:24 am

Re progressive lenses...

A clip on magnifier from champ choice is what I use with mine. It's a 1.0. I've thought of trying a .75, but they don't have one, and I don't recall now whether I ever found anything online.

Started out tipping my head back, or hold them up with my other hand, which doesn't work out too well.

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Post by robvasi on 3/3/2019, 5:30 am

WesG wrote:Re progressive lenses...

A clip on magnifier from champ choice is what I use with mine. It's a 1.0. I've thought of trying a .75, but they don't have one, and I don't recall now whether I ever found anything online.

Started out tipping my head back, or hold them up with my other hand, which doesn't work out too well.

I tried the magnification glasses and do to astigmatism the front sight was not in focus.

Champions Choice seems to offer a solution.  So, I decided to purchase their frames and will install a prescription lens to their lens holder, thus correcting for my astigmatism.

I still need a lens over my non-shooting eye to comply with the requirement for safety glasses, I didn't find a lens holder from Champions that can server this purpose, it is probably available if I knew where to find it on their page.

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Post by JD Mahan on 3/3/2019, 12:32 pm

One con to revolvers nobody mentioned yet;

When you open your box and pull them out, everyone will want to come check them out and talk for a while.

Oh, the definitive list 

Mod 617. .22
Mod 66  CF (k frame)
Mod 625  .45

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Post by robvasi on 3/3/2019, 12:38 pm

JD Mahan wrote:One con to revolvers nobody mentioned yet;

When you open your box and pull them out, everyone will want to come check them out and talk for a while.

Oh, the definitive list 

Mod 617. .22
Mod 66  CF (k frame)
Mod 625  .45

that is a pro! 

I am considering two revolvers, both Smith and Wesson:

1. .22: Model 17-6
2. .357: Model 686 with a 6" barrel.

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Post by JD Mahan on 3/3/2019, 7:34 pm

Agreed, I couldn't find the 'tongue in cheek' emoji .

And your experience may be different, but I've never noticed any accuracy difference shooting .38 specials in a .357.

I did a fairly comprehensive RR test, increasing powder enough in the .357 to give equal velocity, and it just doesnt make any difference.

My mod 66, using any of the usual loads tossed around here, will hold the x ring at 50 yards. I settled on 3.0 g of BE for short line, 3.3 g BE for long line. Bullseye gets a bad rap for being dirty, but I find it an easier dirty to clean up. I use it in my .45acp loads also.

Surely some helpful type person will tell you how bad it is to shoot the shorter case in the long chambers. It does leave a carbon ring, but I've found it cleans up pretty easily. It can be tough to chamber a .357 after a protracted session of low power .38s.
For me, my model 66 hasn't seen a .357 load in years; to me it's just a stainless k-38 clone, and that's how I use it.

When I want .357 mag power, i break out either my mod 27, or my mod 627, unless I'm really feeling the need for abuse (I mean speed) then I bring out the Ruger (or something with a bigger hole in it).

Did not chasing brass all over get listed as a 'pro's?

Have fun

John

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Post by JD Mahan on 3/3/2019, 7:42 pm

Oh, to answer you, I like the 686 a lot, and I have had both the 6 and 7 shot versions.Both were very accurate.

I was shooting Steel Challenge matches with my son  at the time, so traded the 6 shot for the 7, and then moved on to the 8 shot 627. 

I may have a problem

John

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Post by LenV on 3/3/2019, 10:44 pm

I am going to have to jump in here to disagree. Everyone knows that blued shoot better than stainless. I would go with a 586 before a 686 (tongue and cheek emoji needed). Blued get more oohs and aahs. I will agree that 38's shoot great in .357s.

Len
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Post by WesG on 3/3/2019, 11:54 pm

I want my Dad's K-38. I was with him, and about 9 years old, when he bought it. He asked me to give the dealer our phone number. Gave me a huge sense of pride at the time.

I'm pushing 60 now.

Been trying for years to get up the courage to ask him for it. Damn tough thing to do. I know he'd tell me to haul all of it away. But still ...

I have his (Army) Expert medals (*) for rifle and carbine. I know he regretted never having the chance to get one for pistol.

* badges hang from ribbons, medals hang from chains?


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Post by Wobbley on 3/4/2019, 12:04 am

Take him shooting with it one day, he might just offer it too you.  Neither he nor you are getting any younger.  Another memory to cherish is a plus,
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Post by Jon Eulette on 3/4/2019, 9:01 am

I look forward to the day my son asks me for a particular pistol. I say ask your dad! Your his legacy.

Revolver Con: Short stroking the hammer during sustained fire and bypassing the next cylinder.

I was just shooting a DR match and short stroked the hammer and saved a round. It cost me a 'leg' , if I would have hit any scoring ring I would've legged.

Jon
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Post by joy2shoot on 3/4/2019, 9:57 am

Jon Eulette wrote:I was just shooting a DR match and short stroked the hammer and saved a round. It cost me a 'leg' , if I would have hit any scoring ring I would've legged.

Jon
Ouch!  Sorry to hear that.

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