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Rapid Fire Training

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tray999
zanemoseley
mspingeld
weber1b
David R
CR10X
TonyH
STEVE SAMELAK
james r chapman
Jack H
LenV
KBarth
mikemyers
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Post by mikemyers Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:10 am

Seems to me that ten seconds isn't a lot of time to take five shots, aiming each one well enough.  
Even if the gun is already raised, with the red dot on the frame of the target, it means maybe 1.5 seconds per shot, while trying not to be alarmed about running out of time.

I spent much of today dry-firing with a timer, but it's not a fair test as the gun doesn't move when it fires.

Is the best way to get acclimated to this, by going to the range with a timer that beeps once (start) and beeps again nine or ten seconds later (stop)?  During that time, not allowing the five rounds to splatter all over the target......
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Post by KBarth Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:20 am

Keep the trigger moving
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Post by LenV Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:59 am

You have almost 2.5 seconds per shot. Learn to get the first one off as the target turns. Now you have 9.5 seconds for the next 4. Seriously. That is why we train with commands and timers.

Len
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Post by Jack H Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:21 am

It's a rhythm.  You don't consciously aim or pull the trigger, or think about time.  You just perform the shots.  Seek the zone.
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Post by james r chapman Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:57 am

Bullseye app timers available for ‘droid and I-phone.

I notice in our league times fire is over in 12 seconds or so, 

After awhile 10 seconds ain’t bad.
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Post by STEVE SAMELAK Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:48 am

Don't think about the time 10 seconds...think good shots & shot process.
If you only got off 4 and they're all 9s it still better than 5 sevens.
Ten seconds is plenty of time if you use it correctly.
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Post by TonyH Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:16 am

Are you familiar with the USMC Pistol Team Workbook? Maybe the drills listed in that will help, if you follow it systematically. Follow some of the related threads in this forum for some clarification in how to use it correctly.
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Post by mikemyers Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:46 am

LenV wrote:You have almost 2.5 seconds per shot. Learn to get the first one off as the target turns. Now you have 9.5 seconds for the next 4. Seriously. That is why we train with commands and timers.......
Thanks!!!!   I hadn't really thought it out as simply as you described it, but yes!
Commands and timers.....     I've got the timer, using it now; just need the commands.
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Post by mikemyers Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:49 am

james r chapman wrote:Bullseye app timers available for ‘droid and I-phone......
Wow....    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bullseye-range-commands/id605820809?mt=8

Downloading now.

...........excellent!!!   Thanks!

Rapid Fire Training Screen32
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Post by CR10X Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:56 am

633 Topics and 8534 posts in the Fundamentals; a number of them dealing with Timed and Rapid Fire.

Check them out.

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Post by David R Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:01 am

I count for timed and rapid in my head.  I know when the target is going to turn.

David
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Post by weber1b Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:41 am

I used to think 20 seconds was not a lot of time, now it seems like forever. once you get past the thought that 10 seconds is fast and just concentrate on the process, you will find it all works out and ten seconds will seem like plenty of time. The only time (which is not frequent) that 10 seconds is problematic is when I start thinking.

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Post by mspingeld Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:49 am

I find that my eyes screw up the process. If I follow the process and keep the trigger moving, all is well (within my ability to hold). If I pay too much attention to what I'm seeing (movement), it all goes out the window.

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Post by zanemoseley Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:49 am

Once you get your process established 10 seconds starts feeling like a decent amount of time. What starts messing you up is if you get off rhythm, if you get chicken finger or yank a shot with the .45, then you start playing catch-up and taking shots you shouldn't. Mastering the .22lr in timed and rapid is much easier.

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Post by mikemyers Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:53 pm

CR10X wrote:633 Topics and 8534 posts in the Fundamentals; a number of them dealing with Timed and Rapid Fire.

Check them out.
You're right - I should have done that before starting a new thread.  I did a lot of searching on the internet, and found what I thought was a lot of useful information, but what people have posted in this thread was much more so.  LenV's idea suddenly gave me MUCH more time to work with, and downloading the app for my iPhone is far better than the timer stuff I have been using.  Between that, and the other ideas, rapid fire doesn't seem nearly as difficult as it felt at the match.  I guess I would have found those same suggestions here (although I didn't find them looking around anywhere else).

My plan is to go to the range next Tuesday, put up a B-8 target at 25 yards, and run the app on my phone five times, each time firing the five rounds.  Maybe I'll put up four targets, and do this for each.  Then when I can retrieve my targets, I can score them, and see how far off 200 they turn out to be.  Thanks to LenV's suggestion, I now feel I have all the time in the world, compared to before.  If I do all four, I'll take a photo before I take down the targets.

I assume rapid fire is the most difficult part of bullseye.  So, if I work on that first, everything else may be much less difficult.
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Post by tray999 Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:53 pm

mikemyers wrote:
CR10X wrote:633 Topics and 8534 posts in the Fundamentals; a number of them dealing with Timed and Rapid Fire.

Check them out.
You're right - I should have done that before starting a new thread.  I did a lot of searching on the internet, and found what I thought was a lot of useful information, but what people have posted in this thread was much more so.  LenV's idea suddenly gave me MUCH more time to work with, and downloading the app for my iPhone is far better than the timer stuff I have been using.  Between that, and the other ideas, rapid fire doesn't seem nearly as difficult as it felt at the match.  I guess I would have found those same suggestions here (although I didn't find them looking around anywhere else).

My plan is to go to the range next Tuesday, put up a B-8 target at 25 yards, and run the app on my phone five times, each time firing the five rounds.  Maybe I'll put up four targets, and do this for each.  Then when I can retrieve my targets, I can score them, and see how far off 200 they turn out to be.  Thanks to LenV's suggestion, I now feel I have all the time in the world, compared to before.  If I do all four, I'll take a photo before I take down the targets.

I assume rapid fire is the most difficult part of bullseye.  So, if I work on that first, everything else may be much less difficult.

It's all difficult...... That's why we do it!!!!   Smile
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Post by Jack H Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:22 pm

"I assume rapid fire is the most difficult part of bullseye."

I think Rapid is the easiest.  When done right.

There is only do. 
No thinking of do.

Smile
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Post by NKF Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:29 pm

Every now and then I use a slow fire target to shoot rapid fire. I'll start with a rapid fire target or 2. Then try a slow fire shooting rapid fire. It helps some day and other days it just one of those things.

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Post by dieselguy624 Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:07 am

Jack H wrote:"I assume rapid fire is the most difficult part of bullseye."

I think Rapid is the easiest.  When done right.

There is only do. 
No thinking of do.

Smile
This right here.





This game would be easy if your brain wasn't between your eyeball and your finger.

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Post by Stork Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:59 pm

Have you tried running through a full string of fire on a blank target? 


I'm very new to bullseye shooting as well and the more I work on my slow fire, the worse my sustained fire cadence gets. That is until I shoot a blank target a few times. I haven't worked through the USMC workbook past the first couple drills, but that is where I got the idea from. I also used to jerk the trigger at least once which usually ruined an ok ish group. Doing this drill on a blank target is helping me to use all of the time, focus on my front sight, and finally understand the "keeping the trigger moving" thing. Not that I've figured out how to really do it yet, but at least I get it. Not having the target there to distract me, has really helped me focus on a cadence and my process.

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Post by Keyholed Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:19 pm

Stork wrote:I'm very new to bullseye shooting as well and the more I work on my slow fire, the worse my sustained fire cadence gets.

Spoiler alert: your next 10 years of BE will look suspiciously like this. Except for when your sustained is really good but your SF falls to pieces.

What I'm trying to teach myself is that it's all the same trigger pull. The only difference between SF and sustained is that sustained means doing it on demand, on somebody else's schedule.

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