Red Dot- tube or compact

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Post by ae1m on 3/7/2019, 3:04 pm

I am a relatively new (4 years) bullseye shooter in a friendly group of guys shooting bullseye matches.  My current red dot is the Burris Fastfire III style.

I am thinking of getting more serious and considering a Pardini SP.  Several guys in the group have this gun, some with the barrel style red dot such as the Matchdots and some use the compact style (sorry dont know correct terminology) such as my Burris.   All love their style but none can explain why one is better than the other.

I have looked through both, and I suppose after getting accustomed to finding the dot, all seem kind of equal to my novice eye. 

What is the feeling of the community on these?  A good night for me currently is 240+ but would like to improve next season to the 250s+.  Hoping a new gun and setup will help.

Dont want to discuss the gun, I have pretty much decided on that given the expertise on that gun in my group.

Thanks,
Bob

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Post by Multiracer on 3/7/2019, 3:26 pm

Take  both styles outside on a bright sunny day and report back. The reflex style sights are getting better but I think the tube wins in the sunshine.

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Post by weber1b on 3/7/2019, 3:57 pm

I used to use the Fastfire III on both my 22 conversion and my 45. I am now using tube style sights and would not go back. Just my 2 cents worth.

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Post by Keyholed on 3/7/2019, 6:28 pm

Tube. There's simply no contest.

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Post by dronning on 3/7/2019, 8:38 pm

Tube for the reasons stated above.  PLUS there is another reason, because you subconscious loves to align circles inside circles.  Round dot on a round target inside a round tube sight picture.  I even put a red "lobster claw" rubber band around my optic to add another circle.
- Dave
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Post by Dr.Don on 3/8/2019, 9:00 am

Tube also wins in the rain.
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Post by ae1m on 3/8/2019, 2:04 pm

dronning wrote:Tube for the reasons stated above.  PLUS there is another reason, because you subconscious loves to align circles inside circles.  Round dot on a round target inside a round tube sight picture.  I even put a red "lobster claw" rubber band around my optic to add another circle.
- Dave

To all that took time to reply, thanks.

My bullseye matches are all inside at our club range, so that isn't an issue.  I understand people like one kind vs another, is that all there is to it?  I was hoping for a more technical reason.  I know the compact style I have is essentially parallax free and certainly weighs less.  Both types put a dot on the center, really looking for an actual benefit of one over another (indoors no sunshine) since I am starting fresh.  I have had good results with my compact style (as best as my shooting skill allow....) but want to have the best setup.  What do you get for the extra ~3 oz being held out there?

Thanks again,
Bob

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Post by LenV on 3/8/2019, 2:20 pm

Test for parallax. I have found that the longer tubes have less. The shorter distances indoors can be a real problem. Test by holding/clamp the dot in place with the dot centered on an object 50 ft away. Now move your head left and right back and forth and see if the dot moves off the object. All dots move some. The good ones move less.

Len
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Post by Multiracer on 3/8/2019, 2:36 pm

50 feet or 50 yards ?

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Post by ae1m on 3/8/2019, 2:44 pm

Multiracer wrote:50 feet or 50 yards ?
feet

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Post by LenV on 3/8/2019, 4:28 pm

Yep feet. The shorter distances are where a lessor scope can give the most problems. They all look really good at 100 yds. Well, maybe not all.
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Post by gregbenner on 3/8/2019, 4:47 pm

I shoot mostly indoors and use the Burris FF3 on all my guns.  I tried a couple Ultradot MD2’s but sold them. The FF3 is substantially lighter than the tube type, I prefer using barrel/shroud weights to balance the gun.  I have used a friend’s gun with an Aimpoint Micro which is pretty nice, but they are quite pricey.  I’ve not noticed any issues outdoors, but my experience there is limited. 

Also, on some of my guns, the dot sight replaces the rear sight (208, MP90, GSP) and using a tube type can require a bulky and heavy frame mount in order for a place for the rings.

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Post by Aprilian on 3/8/2019, 5:27 pm

LenV wrote:Test for parallax. I have found that the longer tubes have less. The shorter distances indoors can be a real problem. Test by holding/clamp the dot in place with the dot centered on an object 50 ft away. Now move your head left and right back and forth and see if the dot moves off the object. All dots move some. The good ones move less.

Len
Len,

Glasses play a part in that result.  If you can look at a blue and red neon sign at night, turn your head back and forth and have the relative positions of the two colors move, then your glasses would play into your experiment.   My prescription is strong enough that I can get the red traffic light to move almost out of its box.   

I might suggest that a better experiment is to put a small mark/smudge on your glasses and then move to see how the dot moves when you are viewing it from the same part of your prescription.
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Post by LenV on 3/8/2019, 6:05 pm

How about letting someone else do all the heavy lifting. This is one heck of a test done by dedicated shooters. If you have a half hour or more then read the whole thing. I like the final conclusions. 

https://www.greeneyetactical.com/2017/07/27/comparative-study-of-red-dot-sight-parallax/
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Post by Wobbley on 3/8/2019, 7:28 pm

I have a Burris FastFire3 on my 52.  I’m warming up to it greatly.  I may try one on a 45 soon.
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Post by 285wannab on 3/9/2019, 7:32 am

I would look at what the master and high master are using.

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Post by 10sandxs on 3/9/2019, 8:52 am

285wannab wrote:I would look at what the master and high master are using.
That may be a start, but it's not the hammer, it's the carpenter that builds the house, and there are a lot of different hammers out there. Someone shooting a 6"gun with an aim point 9000 may shoot very well, but the same setup in hands with less physical strength will not yield the same result.   

You have to find what works for you.  I'm back to playing with frame mounts and short triggers... seems to be better... for now at least... well see...

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Post by 285wannab on 3/10/2019, 12:20 pm

I was just replying to the op's question on red dots.  I am guessing the majority of better shooters use a tube.  It could be a Aim Point 9000 or a lighter weight Aim Point Micro or cheaper Primary Arms.
Dronning brought up a valid point.  One more reference point.

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Post by mpolans on 3/10/2019, 9:04 pm

IIRC, adjustments on most tube scopes tend to be more click adjustable and consistent, while tubeless ones are less so.

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Post by 10sandxs on 3/10/2019, 9:33 pm

mpolans wrote:IIRC, adjustments on most tube scopes tend to be more click adjustable and consistent, while tubeless ones are less so.
+1.  I've seen a lot of tubeless dots with no detents in the adjustment screws...

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