Pro's and Con's of dedicated '22 pistols compared to 1911 conversions for Bullseye Shooting

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Post by mikemyers on Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

The title says it all.  I couldn't find an existing thread earlier today when I was searching, so here goes.

For bullseye, what are the reasons for and against building a 1911 conversion, compared to just buying a dedicated '22 pistol.

For that matter, what are the current sources for a bullseye-quality conversion kit, and will they just "drop in" on an existing bullseye 1911?

For those who need/want optics, what choices are there?

Do they come with a Bullseye quality barrel, or does that become a special order part?

Does the 1911 need to be modified to work at its best with a conversion?
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Post by dronning on Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:33 am

mikemyers wrote: I shouldn't really say "plastic"; Larry told me the correct name, but I can't recall it right now.
For those of you who already have them, for loading only 5 rounds, is the "Magazine Reloading Tool" essential, or just convenient?

"Polymer", it's still plastic Smile but nobody likes that word!  Larry is correct these mags are nearly indestructible. 

The tool isn't required but just makes loading easier, I have 4 of them.  Why 4?, because of the old if "I have a couple of spares I'll never loose it rule" verses only having one and it goes missing 5 minutes after I unpack it.
- Dave
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Post by Dcforman on Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:59 am

I also use the mag loading tool. Do I need to? No. Is it significantly faster and less stressful during a match? Absolutely.

By the way, I've had good luck with the Brownells magazines in my Nelson. Basically the same as the Nelson mags, but a slightly weaker spring and a taller baseplate. I find them to be a little more reliable with my setup, and they're a little cheaper too.

Dave

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Post by mspingeld on Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:29 am

Personal preference: I have two mag loading tools in my gun box but tend not to use them. I think I'm faster without.


Last edited by mspingeld on Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)

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Post by james r chapman on Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:07 am

When loading 10 for SF I suggest a loading tool of something 

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Post by dronning on Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:44 am

james r chapman wrote:When loading 10 for SF I suggest a loading tool of something 
 I like your magnets I went with a twist tie.
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Post by Founder on Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:56 am

The cheapskates of the Wisconsin team have a bunch of the Advantage Arms conversions on the firing line from this e-retailer: $278.70
https://www.manventureoutpost.com/Advantage-Arms-Conversion-Kit-22LR-Fits-1911-With-Cleaning-Kit-Black-Finish-Target-Sights-1-10Rd-Magazine-AAC191122T_p_22021.html
...and the sight rail:
http://www.advantagearms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AASOS&Product_Code=ScopeMount&Category_Code=1911Parts

I shot a 291 NMC with mine the other day at league.
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Post by mikemyers on Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:04 am

Gee, you this your ability might have had just a little part of your score?     :-)
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Post by Founder on Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:17 am

Using the same lower and REALLY learning to control the trigger is a big help.
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Post by SonOfAGun on Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:29 pm

Founder wrote:The cheapskates of the Wisconsin team have a bunch of the Advantage Arms conversions on the firing line...

Interesting that the Advantage Arms web page says their conversion does not work on SA Range Officer, which seems to be the most often recommended entry level 1911 for BE.

http://www.advantagearms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AASOS&Category_Code=1911
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Post by james r chapman on Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:41 pm

it worked fine on my SA 1911 9mm loaded after replacing the god awful 50# mainspring (felt like it) with a 19#'r
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Post by Wobbley on Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:57 pm

It’s probably the mainspring setups with the “locking feature”.  Replace that with a standard MSH and Mainspring of near normal weight (recommended anyway) and it should do fine.
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Post by JKR on Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:15 pm

I really doubt if any of the conversions would work with that mainspring setup. I think Springfield has abandoned that in the more recent guns.

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Post by LenV on Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:20 pm

There is one advantage with a new upper that seems to have been missed. If your like a bunch of us that have got older you have a Commander length somewhere in the safe or gathering dust. That pistol was a good idea 15 years ago but run and shoot has no appeal anymore. Good news. The Nelson, Marvel or Advantage will drop right on that frame. It won't work on an Officer model. Another thing that may have been missed. You can get conversions for your XD (check for fit first) and some Sigs. So you can train for your EIC matches with the same frame of choice. Just another thought.

Len

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Advantage-Arms-Conversion-Kit-22LR-4-49-Barrel-Fits-Springfield-Armory-XDM-9-4/153378218806?epid=2085967852&hash=item23b60de336:g:gEQAAOSwHQdcZYhn

They also make them for the 229. No experience with accuracy of this make.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sig-Sauer-P220-Factory-22-LR-Conversion-Slide-Barrel-w-4x-10-Round-Magazines/303089858276?hash=item46919036e4:g:6dYAAOSwKj1cgwbB
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Post by dronning on Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:44 pm

JKR wrote:I really doubt if any of the conversions would work with that mainspring setup. I think Springfield has abandoned that in the more recent guns.
Buddy got an RO about 4 months ago and the ILS is no longer on the gun, it's the standard mainspring housing.  Even so I replaced my lowers 21lb & 23lb mainsprings with a 19 right away, maybe that's why I haven't had any problems.
- Dave
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Post by Jack H on Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:09 pm

I have one Advantage Arms unit.  It has a Bob Marvel provided barrel.  It is just as good as a Nelson.  Might even be more accurate from the Ransom.
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Post by messenger on Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:43 pm

LenV wrote:There is one advantage with a new upper that seems to have been missed. If your like a bunch of us that have got older you have a Commander length somewhere in the safe or gathering dust. That pistol was a good idea 15 years ago but run and shoot has no appeal anymore. Good news. The Nelson, Marvel or Advantage will drop right on that frame. It won't work on an Officer model. Another thing that may have been missed. You can get conversions for your XD (check for fit first) and some Sigs. So you can train for your EIC matches with the same frame of choice. Just another thought.

Len

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Advantage-Arms-Conversion-Kit-22LR-4-49-Barrel-Fits-Springfield-Armory-XDM-9-4/153378218806?epid=2085967852&hash=item23b60de336:g:gEQAAOSwHQdcZYhn

They also make them for the 229. No experience with accuracy of this make.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sig-Sauer-P220-Factory-22-LR-Conversion-Slide-Barrel-w-4x-10-Round-Magazines/303089858276?hash=item46919036e4:g:6dYAAOSwKj1cgwbB

I was just about to buy one for my XDM until I read the part about trigger jobs affecting function.

Bill
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Post by OldShooter43 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:17 pm

I'd say that the reloading tool is more than just convenient.  It allows you to load rounds without any pressure applied to the follower.  It's also nice to be able to load up to 10 rounds.  I generally load ten rounds, fire five, put the safety on, and then resume for another five rounds.  That saves time and effort on the range.

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Post by LenV on Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:32 pm

messenger wrote:
LenV wrote:There is one advantage with a new upper that seems to have been missed. If your like a bunch of us that have got older you have a Commander length somewhere in the safe or gathering dust. That pistol was a good idea 15 years ago but run and shoot has no appeal anymore. Good news. The Nelson, Marvel or Advantage will drop right on that frame. It won't work on an Officer model. Another thing that may have been missed. You can get conversions for your XD (check for fit first) and some Sigs. So you can train for your EIC matches with the same frame of choice. Just another thought.

Len

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Advantage-Arms-Conversion-Kit-22LR-4-49-Barrel-Fits-Springfield-Armory-XDM-9-4/153378218806?epid=2085967852&hash=item23b60de336:g:gEQAAOSwHQdcZYhn

They also make them for the 229. No experience with accuracy of this make.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sig-Sauer-P220-Factory-22-LR-Conversion-Slide-Barrel-w-4x-10-Round-Magazines/303089858276?hash=item46919036e4:g:6dYAAOSwKj1cgwbB

I was just about to buy one for my XDM until I read the part about trigger jobs affecting function.

Bill
I never noticed that. Then again mine has never had any trigger work. I went to the home page and read everything again. It won't handle SV ammo either so not really a great option for the XDM. It would be closer to training for EIC however. They recommend CCI Mini-mag. Here is the home page for FAQ's.

http://www.advantagearms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AASOS&Category_Code=1911FAQ
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Post by james r chapman on Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:45 pm

It handles SV just fine, but I believe it’s not made for an Xdm just the xd
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Post by dronning on Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:35 pm

james r chapman wrote:It handles SV just fine, but I believe it’s not made for an Xdm just the xd
From AA's website the XD(M) version fits:

XD(M)® 3.8" Compact Model

XD(M)® 4.5" Model

XD(M)® 5.25" Competition  Series Model

http://www.advantagearms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AASOS&Product_Code=XDM45_22M&Category_Code=
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Post by mikemyers on Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:52 pm

james r chapman wrote:They are affordable, the barrels are as accurate as most high priced .22 handguns.
They allow a common grip (1911) angle, they allow for economical changes in grip configurations, (slabs, ortho, etc)
They allow for easy, economical changes in irons sights to dots.
You can throw it on your centerfire (not .45) gun with a 2 1/2# trigger 
you can throw it on your .45 with a 3 1/2# trigger.
You can throw it on your EIC .45 with a 4# trigger.
affordable magazines. 
So what I've got to look forward to, switching from my Model 41 to the conversion, is better practice to improve my 45 shooting.
I do have two 45's that Dave Salyer built, but the triggers do not feel the same, so I won't get that benefit.
I wonder how I'm going to feel about this one year from now. 
I'm sure I'm going to enjoy shooting it, but I doubt I'll stop shooting the Model 41, that I've owned since around 1980.

If any of you know,  how might the weight of the complete conversion compare to a dedicated 22, and to a 45 wad gun?  Same sight.
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Post by james r chapman on Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:46 am

Didn’t read past XD only. 
Wonder if it works on a XD(M) 5.25 9mm?
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Post by james r chapman on Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:47 am

In a year you’ll want the Pardini...
mikemyers wrote:
james r chapman wrote:They are affordable, the barrels are as accurate as most high priced .22 handguns.
They allow a common grip (1911) angle, they allow for economical changes in grip configurations, (slabs, ortho, etc)
They allow for easy, economical changes in irons sights to dots.
You can throw it on your centerfire (not .45) gun with a 2 1/2# trigger 
you can throw it on your .45 with a 3 1/2# trigger.
You can throw it on your EIC .45 with a 4# trigger.
affordable magazines. 
So what I've got to look forward to, switching from my Model 41 to the conversion, is better practice to improve my 45 shooting.
I do have two 45's that Dave Salyer built, but the triggers do not feel the same, so I won't get that benefit.
I wonder how I'm going to feel about this one year from now. 
I'm sure I'm going to enjoy shooting it, but I doubt I'll stop shooting the Model 41, that I've owned since around 1980.

If any of you know,  how might the weight of the complete conversion compare to a dedicated 22, and to a 45 wad gun?  Same sight.
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Post by Founder on Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:39 am

The conversions for the XD and the Sig are not capable of being used with an optic. Only the 1911 Target conversion is capable of that.

Don't make the mistake of buying the non-target 1911 conversion. It's designed for plinking.
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Post by kidneyboy on Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:53 am

The problem with 9mm Range Officers and conversions is the ejector on the RO runs into the conversions bolt by a couple thousandths of an inch on some of them. This apparently has something to do with passing california's regulations. Larry Nelson suggests filing the ejector a little to fix it. An easy fix if you know what your doing. Chet Whistle at CWAccessories will mill a couple thousandths off the bolt to make his work.

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