CZ P-09 Ransom rest results

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Post by Wmvdg123 on 3/14/2019, 10:43 pm

I have been a member for a year or two and everyone has been very helpful with questions.

The CZ P-09 is polymer gun that is quite accurate. I have been working up loads and feel I have found a few things that improve accuracy in my gun. Getting a ransom rest really helped pin down what is effective, but it is technique sensitive.

Here is a video of my load with 115gr hornady xtp's, 6.0gr of power pistol, COAL 1.125, federal gold match primers. The two 10 shoot groups measured 1.18 inches and 1.35 inches at 50 yards.




Here are some things that helped with my gun.
-Maximizing accuracy with the ransom rest. I started using the ransom rest like the AccuracyX videos (which are amazing by the way!). I stumbled upon an alternative technique. I attached a string to the ransom rest and pull this back with my left hand and quickly return the ransom rest with my right hand. This allows it to be very consistent. You can see this on the videos I posted below from my powder work up on some 115gr HAPs.
-Used starline brass cleaned with wet tumbling (I use the Franklin platinum tumbler) and lengthened with the EGW U-die, the average length even with multiple firings is 0.750 inches. 
-Expanded to just allow the bullet to slip in using the Custom Powder Funnel from Uniquetek.com (this is made by forum member photoescape I believe)
-No crimp
-There aren't any oversized match barrels like for 1911's, so I added some epoxy to the side of the barrel, opposite of the extractor. This helps tighten up the slide to barrel fit, and on the CZ the slide to frame fit is quite good.

Here are some videos of a powder work up with power pistol.
6.2gr power pistol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCzm11Iphx0&t=52s
6.0gr power pistol 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsIQIIqlrz0
5.8gr power pistol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijyCM8Qndgs

I know many forum members recommend the 5.25 XDM. This could also be very accurate with the barrel welded up or epoxied. 
Wayne


Last edited by Wmvdg123 on 3/15/2019, 7:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Orpanaut on 3/15/2019, 1:04 am

That's an unusually long overall length to use with the XTP bullet. Did you settle on that after experimenting with shorter COALs?

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Post by Wmvdg123 on 3/15/2019, 7:17 am

Yes I know it seems long, I think I measured the COAL of Atlanta arms 115 gr xtp at 1.075. Cz pistols have pretty tight Chambers and 1.125 is just barely touching the lands. I have tested from 1.040 to 1.135 and 1.125 shoots the best in my gun.

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Post by Orpanaut on 3/15/2019, 6:53 pm

How does the performance of your handload compare with the Atlanta Arms XTP load?

Also, what sort of sights are you using? I would like to use my CZ P-09 for CMP matches but I haven't found any suitable sights that will fit in the stock dovetails.

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Post by Wmvdg123 on 3/15/2019, 8:02 pm

I bought a box of Atlanta arms about a year-and-a-half ago before I got my Ransom rest. I pulled apart some of the rounds from Atlanta arms and powder did appear to be a ball powder, which is a proprietary powder. I asked on this forum I believe if anyone knew what powder they are using and at that time the closest estimated was n340, which of course is a stick powder. This powder seems to have less recoil than power pistol, but I would think that power pistol is more accurate. I sandbag them at that time and they appear to be similar to my loads with n340 in accuracy. My handloads are better now.

Yes, one of the problems with the P-09 is there's no aftermarket support. There are no adjustable rear sights and so it is not ideal for CMP. I have two of these guns on one of them I put an RMR, I had primary machine mill the slide. However, I like irons more ironically. I wish there was an adjustable rear sight available. Perhaps with time.

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Post by Jon Eulette on 3/15/2019, 8:30 pm

Excellent results! Thanks for sharing.
You are allowed under CMP rules to machine the slide and mount a different rear sight. I built/accurized about 20 of these pistols in the early 90's....always liked them.
Jon
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Post by Wmvdg123 on 3/16/2019, 7:38 pm

Thank you Jon, any gun would be lucky to be accurized by you! That is a good point to that one can have a gunsmith mill the rear sight so could have a 1911 adjustable sight.

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Post by james r chapman on 11/19/2019, 11:21 am

Very nicely presented!
Sacrificing your health to get that great information to us!
Sometime post a picture of your ransom rest base. It appears to be a steel framework.

Thanks

Jim

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Post by Slartybartfast on 11/19/2019, 12:41 pm

There's no barrel bushing. Correct?
Seems this shows the nay-sayers that other CZ pistols could certainly keep up with 1911s in Bullseye.
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Post by zanemoseley on 11/19/2019, 12:48 pm

Not totally sure about the P-09 but the CZ75 series has a fixed bushing that is pinned with the same roll pin that keeps the front sight in place. Cajun custom makes a match bushing you can install, they also do a 1911 style bushing upgrade, as does CZ custom. There is an Accu Shadow model that comes with the 1911 style bushing, I just got a used one a couple weeks back.

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Post by Slartybartfast on 11/19/2019, 2:33 pm

zanemoseley wrote:Not totally sure about the P-09 but the CZ75 series has a fixed bushing that is pinned with the same roll pin that keeps the front sight in place. Cajun custom makes a match bushing you can install, they also do a 1911 style bushing upgrade, as does CZ custom. There is an Accu Shadow model that comes with the 1911 style bushing, I just got a used one a couple weeks back.
Not ready to try and import a CZ97B Sport, so will be eventually looking to see what I can do improve my CZ97B.
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Post by zanemoseley on 11/19/2019, 3:07 pm

I don't think the selection of upgrades for the CZ97 are nearly as wide spread as the CZ75 but there are some out there.

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Post by Wmvdg123 on 11/19/2019, 10:17 pm

Hey Jim, here is another vid showing the base.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsIQIIqlrz0&t=12s
There is no bushing on the p-09. It seems to be accurate due to a very good dwell time, repeatable lockup and excellent slide/frame fit. 
In general the cz 75 and 97 can be made as accurate as the p09 with a cajangunworks 10x bushing (per Joe Mustang who has lots of videos on the cz forums).

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Post by TexasShooter on 11/19/2019, 10:30 pm

Wmvdg123 wrote:... (per Joe Mustang who has lots of videos on the cz forums).
Joe is one of our Texas guys and does love his CZ's. He tests them at 100 yds off a sandbag and get surprisingly good results. Pretty decent bullseye shooter too, especially considering he didn't take it up until he was like 137 years old...

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Post by radjag on 11/20/2019, 12:42 am

I must say that I'm mightily impressed by these results from a polymer frame gun.

I've definitely been one of the "nay-sayers" about several stock guns recently, mainly based on my rather limited experience of trying to get decent groups (at short range) using factory "white box" 9mm ammo. I am not set up to reload 9mm, but was advised recently to try some Atlanta Arms Elite 9mm ammo in an accurised 1911 9mm and found the combination to be hugely better than I'd previously experienced.

I guess that the moral of this thread is that it is possible to get match quality groups from any decent gun if you invest the time and effort in working up the right load and then do a little tweaking.

Great thread Wmvdg123 . thanks.

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Post by inthebeech on 11/20/2019, 3:08 am

I'd like to see someone get really committed to accurizing an M&P; oversize barrels are made for gunsmith fitting and this is both at the breech and at the muzzle.   Adjustable rear sights are also available and lastly it is legal for EIC.
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Post by rich.tullo on 11/20/2019, 4:33 pm

I heard from an operator the P9 CZ's they gave him in an Asian Country could shoot great out to 75 yards. 

10x busing for CZ 75

1911 bushing which requires mill work for a 97. 

Personally I would go down that Rabbit hole with a 97 before a 75 because you can shoot 45 in CF. 

However, for BE and EIC CZ platforms will produce a #3 or under trigger if you do a trigger job. Maybe they can bump it to #4 but that is something people should understand. (a rich man's problem).
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Post by rich.tullo on 11/21/2019, 6:41 pm

Wmvdg123 wrote:I bought a box of Atlanta arms about a year-and-a-half ago before I got my Ransom rest. I pulled apart some of the rounds from Atlanta arms and powder did appear to be a ball powder, which is a proprietary powder. I asked on this forum I believe if anyone knew what powder they are using and at that time the closest estimated was n340, which of course is a stick powder. This powder seems to have less recoil than power pistol, but I would think that power pistol is more accurate. I sandbag them at that time and they appear to be similar to my loads with n340 in accuracy. My handloads are better now.

Yes, one of the problems with the P-09 is there's no aftermarket support. There are no adjustable rear sights and so it is not ideal for CMP. I have two of these guns on one of them I put an RMR, I had primary machine mill the slide. However, I like irons more ironically. I wish there was an adjustable rear sight available. Perhaps with time.
Cajun gun works has some stuff and CZ Custom shop too.
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