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A question about using more of your body to keep a gun on target

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Richard Benoit
mikemyers
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A question about using more of your body to keep a gun on target Empty A question about using more of your body to keep a gun on target

Post by mikemyers Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:28 pm

For as long as I remember, aiming my gun consisted of facing the target and moving my arm to position the gun in front of me, with the sights lined up on the target.  Very simple.  Squeeze the trigger, and the bullet was supposed to go where the gun was aimed.  

Others here pointed out that before you even raise your arm, there was stuff to deal with such as "natural point of aim".  Brian brought this point home to me, that if I picked up the gun as if to shoot, and it wasn't aimed at the target, to NOT do what I used to, move my body as needed, but to reposition my feet and my grip such that the gun naturally came up pointing at the target, and start all over again until I got it right.  Two weeks ago, this was laughable, as my gun never came up where I wanted it to be, but with enough dry fire practice somehow, magically, it started to work.

Fast forward to this past Tuesday.  I needed to go to the range for another reason, and since I was going anyway, I brought my gun in case the 100% rain probability was an error.  It wasn't, and the rain never stopped, so I went down to the end of the firing line with steel targets hanging in the air 50 yards away.  No need to get drenched, setting up a paper target, which would quickly "melt".  So, I went after the steel, eventually finding ways to more often generate that "pinng" sound when a steel plate gets attacked by a bullet.

Also, as was suggested here, I tried my hardest to clear my mind, not thinking, just doing.  For me, that's very hard to do.  My brain always wants to get involved.  This went on for approaching an hour, load magazine, raise arm to above target, lower arm while applying pressure to trigger, and trying to get the very small wobble to be in the middle of the steel plate as I smoothly press the trigger.  (Great training aid - if I wasn't smooth, guaranteed I would miss!!)


All that stuff is just background information.  Here's my question.  On a whim, as I raised my arm, and as it got in front of my face, I slightly leaned backwards too.  The gun ended up slightly high, with my back leaning a little towards the rear.  Then I did my best to make my hand - wrist - arm - and body "rigid".  Instead of lowering my arm, I just pivoted my body over my waist, and the entire group of body parts plus the gun came down until the gun was in front of the steel plate.  

The difference between doing it this way, compared to what I had been doing, was the combination of body parts and gun was much more "rigid".  There was still a small wobble, but it stayed centered over the center of the steel plate.  So, I shot like that for the next half hour, and the "pinng" count was improved.



If you have no idea what I'm trying to say, raise your arm in front of you, and point at something with your finger, and only by moving the finger, keep the finger pointing at your "target". Not easy.  Then, "lock" your finger to your hand to your wrist to your arm, and move your body around as needed so the finger remains pointing where you want.  For me, the second way is more "stable", and the huge mass reduces any "shakes" (think wobble).  

Is this something that can help a mortal person, not a god, in helping them keep their aim on the target?  

Locking the hand and wrist improves accuracy.  What if you locked your arm as well, as well as its connection to your upper body?

(Another way of looking at this is, how much of your body can you bond with your gun, so the very mass of everything makes your shot better?)
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Post by Richard Benoit Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:05 pm

mikemyers wrote:For as long as I remember, aiming my gun consisted of facing the target and moving my arm to position the gun in front of me, with the sights lined up on the target.  Very simple.  Squeeze the trigger, and the bullet was supposed to go where the gun was aimed.  

Others here pointed out that before you even raise your arm, there was stuff to deal with such as "natural point of aim".  Brian brought this point home to me, that if I picked up the gun as if to shoot, and it wasn't aimed at the target, to NOT do what I used to, move my body as needed, but to reposition my feet and my grip such that the gun naturally came up pointing at the target, and start all over again until I got it right.  Two weeks ago, this was laughable, as my gun never came up where I wanted it to be, but with enough dry fire practice somehow, magically, it started to work.

Fast forward to this past Tuesday.  I needed to go to the range for another reason, and since I was going anyway, I brought my gun in case the 100% rain probability was an error.  It wasn't, and the rain never stopped, so I went down to the end of the firing line with steel targets hanging in the air 50 yards away.  No need to get drenched, setting up a paper target, which would quickly "melt".  So, I went after the steel, eventually finding ways to more often generate that "pinng" sound when a steel plate gets attacked by a bullet.

Also, as was suggested here, I tried my hardest to clear my mind, not thinking, just doing.  For me, that's very hard to do.  My brain always wants to get involved.  This went on for approaching an hour, load magazine, raise arm to above target, lower arm while applying pressure to trigger, and trying to get the very small wobble to be in the middle of the steel plate as I smoothly press the trigger.  (Great training aid - if I wasn't smooth, guaranteed I would miss!!)


All that stuff is just background information.  Here's my question.  On a whim, as I raised my arm, and as it got in front of my face, I slightly leaned backwards too.  The gun ended up slightly high, with my back leaning a little towards the rear.  Then I did my best to make my hand - wrist - arm - and body "rigid".  Instead of lowering my arm, I just pivoted my body over my waist, and the entire group of body parts plus the gun came down until the gun was in front of the steel plate.  

The difference between doing it this way, compared to what I had been doing, was the combination of body parts and gun was much more "rigid".  There was still a small wobble, but it stayed centered over the center of the steel plate.  So, I shot like that for the next half hour, and the "pinng" count was improved.



If you have no idea what I'm trying to say, raise your arm in front of you, and point at something with your finger, and only by moving the finger, keep the finger pointing at your "target". Not easy.  Then, "lock" your finger to your hand to your wrist to your arm, and move your body around as needed so the finger remains pointing where you want.  For me, the second way is more "stable", and the huge mass reduces any "shakes" (think wobble).  

Is this something that can help a mortal person, not a god, in helping them keep their aim on the target?  

Locking the hand and wrist improves accuracy.  What if you locked your arm as well, as well as its connection to your upper body?

(Another way of looking at this is, how much of your body can you bond with your gun, so the very mass of everything makes your shot better?)
A critical step in my shot process is to lockup my grip, wrist, elbow and shoulder with the gun benched, then raise the whole assembly from the shoulder only. It works much better than haphazardly sticking the gun out there and then trying to stabilize it. I'm still trying to define the feeling in my brain so that I know when I've got it right. Richard

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Post by mikemyers Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:18 pm

Richard Benoit wrote:A critical step in my shot process is to lockup my grip, wrist, elbow and shoulder with the gun benched, then raise the whole assembly from the shoulder only. It works much better than haphazardly sticking the gun out there and then trying to stabilize it.....
I think you explained it better than I did.  I'm mostly doing what you wrote, but I don't do the "lockup" until the gun is up pretty close to the. target.  I raise my arm above the target, lock everything together, and pivot to bring my body, and the sights, onto the target.  

(The reason I don't do this when I'm first raising my arm, is because my eyes are locked on the target, and everything comes up to meet my eyesight.  If everything isn't aligned, right to left, I start all over again after adjusting my feet.  This is all with a 22 so far.  I'm anxious to try it with my Model 52.)

I don't know that my aiming is any better or worse, but your word "stabilize" is what happens to me doing things this way.  
The more of my body that's locked together with the gun, the more stable the gun is.
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Post by LenV Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:09 pm

Mike, because you asked and didn't really get an answer in the "con" topic. Here is what a score sheet from a real match looks like. There are no decimal points on the score card. Scores from an old fat guy that used to shoot Master.

A question about using more of your body to keep a gun on target 20180412
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Post by mikemyers Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:46 pm

Len, as usual, when you post something, I understand.  I had no idea what the other chart was showing, and I didn't feel like asking again.

What you just posted is essentially the same as what they do at my club.   Thanks!!
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Post by IT1 Wes Mon May 20, 2019 7:39 am

mikemyers wrote:For as long as I remember, aiming my gun consisted of facing the target and moving my arm to position the gun in front of me, with the sights lined up on the target.  Very simple.  Squeeze the trigger, and the bullet was supposed to go where the gun was aimed.  

Others here pointed out that before you even raise your arm, there was stuff to deal with such as "natural point of aim".  Brian brought this point home to me, that if I picked up the gun as if to shoot, and it wasn't aimed at the target, to NOT do what I used to, move my body as needed, but to reposition my feet and my grip such that the gun naturally came up pointing at the target, and start all over again until I got it right.  Two weeks ago, this was laughable, as my gun never came up where I wanted it to be, but with enough dry fire practice somehow, magically, it started to work.

Fast forward to this past Tuesday.  I needed to go to the range for another reason, and since I was going anyway, I brought my gun in case the 100% rain probability was an error.  It wasn't, and the rain never stopped, so I went down to the end of the firing line with steel targets hanging in the air 50 yards away.  No need to get drenched, setting up a paper target, which would quickly "melt".  So, I went after the steel, eventually finding ways to more often generate that "pinng" sound when a steel plate gets attacked by a bullet.

Also, as was suggested here, I tried my hardest to clear my mind, not thinking, just doing.  For me, that's very hard to do.  My brain always wants to get involved.  This went on for approaching an hour, load magazine, raise arm to above target, lower arm while applying pressure to trigger, and trying to get the very small wobble to be in the middle of the steel plate as I smoothly press the trigger.  (Great training aid - if I wasn't smooth, guaranteed I would miss!!)


All that stuff is just background information.  Here's my question.  On a whim, as I raised my arm, and as it got in front of my face, I slightly leaned backwards too.  The gun ended up slightly high, with my back leaning a little towards the rear.  Then I did my best to make my hand - wrist - arm - and body "rigid".  Instead of lowering my arm, I just pivoted my body over my waist, and the entire group of body parts plus the gun came down until the gun was in front of the steel plate.  

The difference between doing it this way, compared to what I had been doing, was the combination of body parts and gun was much more "rigid".  There was still a small wobble, but it stayed centered over the center of the steel plate.  So, I shot like that for the next half hour, and the "pinng" count was improved.



If you have no idea what I'm trying to say, raise your arm in front of you, and point at something with your finger, and only by moving the finger, keep the finger pointing at your "target". Not easy.  Then, "lock" your finger to your hand to your wrist to your arm, and move your body around as needed so the finger remains pointing where you want.  For me, the second way is more "stable", and the huge mass reduces any "shakes" (think wobble).  

Is this something that can help a mortal person, not a god, in helping them keep their aim on the target?  

Locking the hand and wrist improves accuracy.  What if you locked your arm as well, as well as its connection to your upper body?

(Another way of looking at this is, how much of your body can you bond with your gun, so the very mass of everything makes your shot better?)

Hi, Mike,
I read somewhere that if you try to lock it in, you are increasing tension which may cause more wobble.
It may be important to do the exact same things in the exact same way every time and be surprised when the pistol goes off.
I think the longbowmen of old England would scarify a spot on the side of their face so that their fingers would be touching the same spot every time.
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Post by spursnguns Mon May 20, 2019 9:04 am

IT1 Wes wrote:Hi, Mike,
....I think the longbowmen of old England would scarify a spot on the side of their face so that their fingers would be touching the same spot every time.

Hello IT1 Wes,

You don't have to go back that far.  Fifty years ago we were taught to touch the corner of your mouth with the tip of your middle finger each time you were at full draw of a bow.  It was a handy reference point to keep things consistent.

Jim
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Post by dronning Mon May 20, 2019 9:48 am

mikemyers wrote:I think you explained it better than I did.  I'm mostly doing what you wrote, but I don't do the "lockup" until the gun is up pretty close to the. target.  I raise my arm above the target, lock everything together, and pivot to bring my body, and the sights, onto the target.  
Are you pivoting using your rear foot or at the your waist?  If you pivot from your waist your groups will usually drift from center in the opposite direction you twisted, same result as if you moved your arm to center yourself.  You might no notice it as much in slow fire but in sustained fire it can show up as a shifted group or a horizontal string.
- Dave
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