Iris with a red dot

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Post by radjag on Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:56 pm

When I was young I wore spectacles and when shooting over iron sights I had one of those little iris things with a rubber suction cup that I could position on my right spectacle lens and a blinder on the left. The iris dramatically improved my depth of field so that I could better focus on front sight and target.

I had LASIK surgery when it first became popular and now have "mono-vision" in that they corrected my dominant right eye to sharp distance focus and my left eye for reading, etc. The only time I have any eyesight limitation is when in very low light conditions (at night, especially in the rain). When I drive at night and when I shoot shotgun I use spectacles with polycarbonate safety lens' which correct my left eye for distance (I shoot shotgun with both eyes open).

I have recently got back into precision pistol shooting and am trying to figure out the best arrangement. Up to now I've been using a spare pair of my driving/shooting glasses. A couple of issues - I have difficulty reading and adjusting sights, etc., because my glasses are correcting my left "reading" eye - OK, easy to fix, I plan to get glasses with left lens neutral. I use red dots on all of my pistols - I'm gradually switching over to Ultadots for my precision guns and have not yet faced any issues seeing the UD dots. I've got Vortex Venon micro-dots on several others. I have some astigmatism and am finding the Venoms inconsistent, dots can be blurry (I very recently discovered that 2 out of my 6 Venoms no longer have brightness controls - they will go back to Vortex - I discovered that because the dots were too bright and that made things worse for me), but in general the Venom dots are not as distinct as the UD's. IMHO.

At my first Bullseye competition I attended recently I noticed some shooters with red dots, and also using an iris on their shooting glasses.

So, what are the advantages of using an iris?  I've recently read (e.g. from Brian Zins) that with a red dot sight it is important to focus solely on the target and allow the dot to be less than perfectly in focus.

Any advice or recommendations much appreciated.

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Post by willnewton on Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:23 am

An iris will take care of your astigmatism based dot flare and sharpen up the sights when shooting irons.  You can also try a larger dot size, which can help reduce the dot flare from astigmatism.

The iris hole may look small, but you can see the whole target.  If it is too small then the amount of light coming in is reduced.

I have astigmatism and mild focus issues with irons, so I found it worthwhile. I used an Eyepal to start, then a suction cup iris, then finally the Gehmann iris.

The Gehmann is my favorite as it has an adjustable iris, stays in place, but could be flipped up, then back down into the same place.

If you shoot with folks using them, then ask to try it on before or after the match and you will see how it affects your sight picture.
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Post by dronning on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:13 am

Been using an EyePal for years and frosted removable 3M tape over left lens.  These are Rudy Project Rydon shooting glasses with a corrective lens clip-on that clips-on behind the colored lens.  I put the EyePal on the clip-on so I can switch out the colored lens easily and the EyePal stays in place. 
- Dave
Iris with a red dot Tape10
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Post by -TT- on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:57 am

Another advantage to using an iris is that your head position has to be just-so, this can help the shot process. And if using it means you don't need any additional lens correction, that's a good thing too. They're easy to try in any case!

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Post by radjag on Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:29 pm

Excellent feedback, thanks.

Next question - I see the fancy Knobloch/Gehmann and other brand target shooting frames (e.g. at Champions Choice), but I also know that (common sense and) almost all ranges require eye protection to be worn. Are these fancy frame units compatible with centerfire/45 pistol shooting - from an eye safety point of view?

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Post by dronning on Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:49 pm

radjag wrote: Are these fancy frame units compatible with centerfire/45 pistol shooting - from an eye safety point of view?
Better than nothing - barely.  I use to use my Knobloch's for iron sight matches (I had a set from my rifle shooting), but I never felt comfortable (safety wise) with them.  I tried the Gehmann flip up iris on my Decots but it never fit right.  When I discovered the EyePal I bought the Rydon's.

Having said that I know of at least 1 High Master that uses Knobloch's or Champions.
- Dave
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Post by Jon Math on Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:10 pm

I wear Champions when I shoot irons.  I tried on many pairs of clear eye protective glasses wrap around styles till I found a very low profile set that I can get on under the Champion frames giving me good protection and the vision correction I need. I ended up with an older Wiley X model that are now discontinued, and I wish I had purchased a spare pair.  
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Post by -TT- on Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:40 pm

radjag wrote:...  I've recently read (e.g. from Brian Zins) that with a red dot sight it is important to focus solely on the target and allow the dot to be less than perfectly in focus.

By the way, not all red dots will be out of focus in this case. The dot is projected onto a "screen" (the curved reflex surface, the forward lens, etc) and many designs place this at optical infinity. For most of us, that's anything above 20 feet, i.e. standard eye chart distance. If you wear corrective lenses, or you're Chuck Yeager or something, that might be different. But at 50 feet, or 50 yards, any good-quality red dot should appear in-focus. Even then, ignore the edges. Concentrate on the centers.

I used an iris with my Aimpoint for a time, but don't anymore.

-TT-

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Post by lablover on Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:43 pm

Great topic.  I’m struggling with the age issue.  Trying an eyepal on my prescription glasses but makes it tough when I’m scoring etc.  I’d like to find a clip on +1 diopter but have yet to find one that’s not foggy looking and not super clear.  They all seem like junk!

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Post by Wobbley on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:13 pm

Tell your eyedoc that you need a +.75 or +1 diopter lens for your shooting eye in a pair of glasses.  You also want the optical center to be roughly centered on your pupil when in shooting position.  He can add or subtract any tilt for your astigmatism accordingly.  Get a tinted pair for outdoor.  I recommend a orangey-pink tint that cuts the blue.
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Post by lablover on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:28 pm

Wobbley wrote:Tell your eyedoc that you need a +.75 or +1 diopter lens for your shooting eye in a pair of glasses.  You also want the optical center to be roughly centered on your pupil when in shooting position.  He can add or subtract any tilt for your astigmatism accordingly.  Get a tinted pair for outdoor.  I recommend a orangey-pink tint that cuts the blue.
Thank you so much

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Post by lablover on Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:43 pm

Is this the clip on iris that was discussed above?  Is anyone using this model..seems it would work good.  Any reviews?


http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=ItemDetailOptions&item=390

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Post by Ray Dash on Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:11 pm

Myself and a friend use them and they work as intended. I thought my eyes were perfect but the iris def cleared things up for me.

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Post by Ray Dash on Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:11 pm

Myself and a friend use them and they work as intended. I thought my eyes were perfect but the iris def cleared things up for me.

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Post by radjag on Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:44 pm

Trial system. I came across a Merit Corporation suction cup Iris that I must have bought a while ago and forgot about  - till I saw it when looking for another item that I had mislaid - age!!

I then found these interesting frames with flip up sunglassess on eBay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Retro-Flip-up-Sunglasses-Men-Women-Metal-Round-John-Lennon-Style-Glasses/273499024607?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=572891603437&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Only $6.99 and they arrived very fast. Even got sprung side arms, but the little screws on the hinges will not come out - so I cannot expect these to hold together for long.
Iris with a red dot Yoko_110
I taped over the left eye flipper. Removed the right eye plain disc and swapped it for the shaded disc in the flipper then mounted the Merit. Like this.
Iris with a red dot Img_2012Tried them this afternoon - interesting. I think I like it, but need to practice a bit more with them to be sure. I'd already ordered a set of the Eye Pal's (before dicovering I already had the Merit). I think that will be better, the merit moves around too easily if you happen to touch it when using the spotting scope, etc.Iris with a red dot Img_2012
Iris with a red dot Img_2011

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