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Post by Bheath on 4/10/2019, 5:48 pm

I am thinking about going to Camp Perry for the first time.  Can not find what goes on the 7/7-7/12. Do you need to get there on the 6th. there doesn't seem to be a program I can find.
Thanks in advance for the help.

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Post by lablover on 4/10/2019, 6:03 pm

Following

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Post by dronning on 4/10/2019, 6:27 pm

No you do not need to be there the 6th.  Many shooters will be competing at 2019 Frank J. Bickar Memorial Regional Canton, OH NRA Regional Pistol Championship (July5-7) and won't even get there until later in the day on the 7th.

Here:
Overview of schedule

Other info, rules, forms, lodging, other points of interest

2019 Complete Camp Perry Calendar 

- Dave


Last edited by dronning on 4/10/2019, 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by mspingeld on 4/10/2019, 6:36 pm

Also consider signing up for the CMP SAFS (small arm firing school) which includes, classroom, coaching and an M9 service pistol match (they supply the gun and ammo). Oh, and a free t-shirt shirt! (They run small, go up a size)

There are other CMP pistol activities as well: EIC22, service pistol match, Presidents 100, National trophy pistol match. All of which can be done without interrupting the NRA matches.

Lots of shooting, lots of fun.

Commercial row... Might want to request an increase in your credit line!

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Post by Bheath on 4/10/2019, 6:46 pm

Thank You, The small arms class is Monday?

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Post by mspingeld on 4/10/2019, 6:57 pm

Tuesday

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Post by TonyH on 4/10/2019, 7:09 pm

Both the basic and advanced SAFS classes will be held on Saturday, July 13, 2019. See CMP schedule: http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2019NMCalendar.pdf?vers=090818


Last edited by TonyH on 4/10/2019, 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by dronning on 4/10/2019, 7:09 pm

See calendar in my post above
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Post by mspingeld on 4/10/2019, 7:10 pm

TonyH is absolutely correct. Sorry for the bad info.

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Post by Outthere on 4/10/2019, 10:19 pm

Tons of down time. Your wife will hate it.

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Post by CR10X on 4/11/2019, 7:48 am

First, I posted this in another topic earlier:

Procedure for checking in when you get to Perry. 

If it runs as it usually does, when you get there, you will need to check in at the CMP registration office for post locator info, etc.; so you can get your wrist band (basically to be on base).  

Check in for CMP matches is generally the end of the week (was Thursday or Friday last year if I think, they used to do it earlier).   
BUT, you will need the wrist band to check in at the NRA Office when it opens.  

Next, go to Camp Perry housing office (clubhouse) if you are staying on base to get checked in for housing.

When the NRA registration opens (most times Monday, sometimes on Sunday PM), go there with your wrist band to pick up your package.  There will be a bunch of stuff in the package, but more importantly: 
(1) Check your package there for your squadding ticket (a very small piece of paper) with your relay and target assignment for each day you are shooting.  
(2) Make sure you have scorecards for all the matches you have signed up for and:
(3) Name/competitor labels that are correct to put on them.  (Put your scorecards with your labels on them in your box so you will not forget.  The blue ones you would have to buy on the range are expensive....) 

Any problems, get in line at the window.  Anything else, just ask someone else who looks like they know where they are going.  

CR

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Post by Bheath on 4/11/2019, 12:03 pm

mspingeld wrote:Also consider signing up for the CMP SAFS (small arm firing school) which includes, classroom, coaching and an M9 service pistol match (they supply the gun and ammo). Oh, and a free t-shirt shirt! (They run small, go up a size)

There are other CMP pistol activities as well: EIC22, service pistol match, Presidents 100, National trophy pistol match. All of which can be done without interrupting the NRA matches.

Lots of shooting, lots of fun.

Commercial row... Might want to request an increase in your credit line!
I'm sure of that!

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Post by Bheath on 4/11/2019, 12:04 pm

Made Room Reservations this morning.

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Post by valbern67 on 4/11/2019, 12:31 pm

There's also supposed to be a $20 discount for first timers (like me!) and the person who is bringing you. There was no way to indicate that on the lonline registration, so hopefully it can be taken care of in person?

Anyone have any info on this?

Very Happy

Val
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Post by brassmaster on 4/12/2019, 7:43 pm

valbern67 wrote:There's also supposed to be a $20 discount for first timers (like me!) and the person who is bringing you. There was no way to indicate that on the lonline registration, so hopefully it can be taken care of in person?

Anyone have any info on this?

Very Happy

Val

The first or second year of the "first-timer program" I took a first-timer with me and on Tuesday a.m. I went to the East Side window of NRA Registration, filled out the short form and to the best of my recollection, was handed a crisp Andrew Jackson and a Lincoln, ($25)---which I promptly spent on Commercial Row. I believe my sponsored junior received $20.
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Post by valbern67 on 4/12/2019, 7:48 pm

Camp Perry First Timer 2935285009
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Post by Bheath on 4/15/2019, 4:31 pm

Can someone tell me what happens Friday?  are the NRA matches still taking place?

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Post by james r chapman on 4/15/2019, 6:17 pm

Bheath wrote:Can someone tell me what happens Friday?  are the NRA matches still taking place?
Friday would be NRA .45 matches.
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Post by SteveT on 4/15/2019, 7:49 pm

I remember being totally confused my first time at Perry. I sat down with the book and tried to map out all the matches and when I had to be where, but the information was inconsistent and sometimes just plain inaccurate. It is best to have an experienced Camp Perry shooter to guide you your first time.

Assuming it is run the same as last year the schedule should be something like this. Keep in mind I could be wrong and the program could change. Don't count on the NRA or CMP to provide good and thorough information.

Sunday

  • Check In / In-Processing at CMP (All competitors, even if you aren't shooting CMP)

You have to go through "In-Processing" at the CMP before picking up your NRA packet. If the NRA people are trained, they will ask to see the wrist band from in-processing. If you are shooting CMP you will get your CMP name badge, score cards, labels and squadding ticket

Monday

  • Check In / In-Processing at CMP (All competitors, even if you aren't shooting CMP)
  • NRA Packet Pickup at NRA Stat Building (look for covered patio area with A-Frame displays for posting scores)
  • Harry Reeves Revolver Match 1:00
  • Distinguished Revolver Match ~2:00 or after Reeves

Your NRA Packet will include your name badge, score cards, labels and Squadding Ticket with relay number, range and firing point

Wear or bring your name badge when shooting, NRA or CMP depending on match. If the range officials need anything from you they will want to see your badge with competitor number. No need to annoy them by not having it with you.

Score cards are one of those things unique to Camp Perry. 

  • In the car or room put your labels on each score card (there are 4 each day in NRA).
  • Bring your score cards with you! If you forget, replacement score cards on the range cost $5 each ($20 for the day)
  • Bring your labels with you! in case you have to buy score cards
  • Only give your scorer the cards for that day. Some people only give their scorer one card at a time in case the scorer leaves the range for some reason (gun malfunction, illness, injury) and takes you cards with him (see above to buy replacement cards). I have never seen this happen, but it is a possibility. I have had the person scoring me not show up the next day.

Tuesday NRA

  • Preliminary Championship 7:30 (Relay 1 HM/MA/EX), ~9:00 or after R1 (Relay 2 SS/MM/Unclassified), 1:00 (Relay 3 EX/SS)
  • Preliminary Teams ~3:00 or after relay 3

Prelim is National Match Course - NMC (1 target SF at 50yds, 1 tgt TF at 25yds, 1 tgt RF at 25) repeated with each of 3 guns, 22, CF, 45

There are a few things at Camp Perry that are different from most matches

  • Firing points are earth (grass, dirt, rocks, mud). Think "big cow pasture" and your won't be far off. Finding level ground that fits your stance can sometimes take a little experimentation
  • Firing points are uncovered, wide open and close to the Lake Erie shore. Be prepared for sun, wind, rain, bugs, snow (well, ok, I've never actually seen snow)
  • You are not allowed to open your gun box until the 3 minute prep time. It is a good idea to have anything you need (ear plugs, shooting glasses, clipboard etc. out of your box before going to the line. Oil you gun and load magazines at the car or in the room before going out to the line.
  • There is one row of targets. You shoot SF from the 50 yd benches, then put your gun in the box, close the box, then move your equipment to the 25 yd benches. After everyone is back after scoring and replacing targets they will let you open your box. 
  • You will not have much time before they start the first timed fire string so adjust your sights and load you magazines before closing the box at 50 yds. Be as ready as you can be. I heard they give us 45 seconds from the time they say "you may open your boxes and adjust your equipment". That may be when things are going ok, but if the line is running late, I think they might try to gain a little time here.
  • After scoring get ready to shoot. Find you stance, put on your eyes and ears. Do everything you can without touching your gun. As soon as the last person is behind the benches they will start the commands. This is doubly true for the second TF target and the second RF target when as soon as the last person steps behind the benches the will announce "The line is back you may handle your guns. For your next string of timed fire with 5 rounds load" that's it. If you are sitting in your chair, or picking up brass, or shooting the breeze you will have to rush to get ready to shoot. Be ready and save yourself the aggravation.
  • If all else fails... don't shoot. Sometimes even if someone says "not ready" they will go on with the commands and shoot the string. Don't scream and yell. If they don't stop when you say "not ready", unload your gun, put in the ECI and step back from the bench. The Range Officer will probably come up to you and ask what's wrong. Tell him/her "I wasn't ready". You will still get 2 complete strings plus a malfunction refire if necessary.

Unclassified shooters shoot with Marksmen, but are scored in the Master class as "Unclassified Master". If you have a log book you can go to stat office to be classified (I think)

Wednesday NRA

  • 22 Caliber Championship 7:30 (Relay 1 HM/MA/EX), ~9:00 or after R1 (Relay 2 SS/MM/Unclassified), 1:00 (Relay 3 EX/SS)
  • 22 Caliber Teams ~3:00 or after relay 3

22 Caliber Championship is a regular 900, SF (2 tgts SF @50), NMC (SF @50, TF/RF @25), TF (2 tgt @25), RF (2 tgt @25), CF and 45 are the same

Teams are a separate entry. If you are not connected with a team (State Assoc or local club) join the eWorld Shooting Association (google it). They often have enough people to form a team. Look at the bulletin boards for meeting notice Monday or Tuesday.

Thursday NRA

  • CF Championship 7:30 (Relay 1 SS/MM/Unclassified), ~9:00 or after R1 (Relay 2 EX/SS), 1:00 (Relay 3 HM/MA/EX)
  • CF Teams ~3:00 or after relay 3

Friday NRA

  • 45 Caliber Championship 7:30 (Relay 1 EX/SS), ~9:00 or after R1 (Relay 2 HM/MA/EX), 1:00 (Relay 3 SS/MM/Unclassified)
  • 45 Caliber Teams ~3:00 or after relay 3
  • NRA Awards 7:00 or 8:00? something like that in Auditorium (look for all the flags)

Saturday CMP

  • Small Arms Firing School 7:00 or 7:30 in Auditorium
  • M9 Match (part of SAFS)
  • EIC Pistol Match
  • 22 Rimfire EIC Match
  • Glock Match

I'm not sure about the times for these matches

Sunday CMP

  • Presidents 100 7:30
  • National Trophy Individual - NTI ("Leg Match") ~9:00 or after P100
  • National Trophy Team - NTT (Service Pistol Teams) ~11:00 or after NTI
  • CMP Awards 4:00 or 5:00 in Auditorium

Presidents 100 match is like a NMC, except with an extra target of SF (20 shots total SF) for 400 pts. Top 100 shooters qualify as "Presidents 100". The winner gets a letter from the president (I think they still do that, but I haven't won overall... yet).

The NTI is like a leg or EIC match except all civilians in top 10% get 10 pts and it doesn't count against the total number of matches you can shoot in a year.

The NTT is a bit strange. At least one person on the team must be a "new shooter" which means they have never fired in a NTT match, ever. Otherwise it is a typical NMC team match with only service pistols allowed.
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Post by lablover on 4/16/2019, 4:21 pm

Awesome Post

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Post by Bheath on 4/16/2019, 6:05 pm

Thank you! That is a big help.

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Post by SteveT on 4/16/2019, 7:06 pm

I thought of a few more things to know about Camp Perry.

Range 1 is to the West (left when facing downrange). Range 4 is to the East. The flagpole and the CMP building are more or less behind Range 4.

The control tower is in the middle of the range. The low end (firing point 100-149, 200-249 etc.) is to the West (left) of the tower, the high end (150-199) is to the East (right) of the tower. The benches and targets are marked with the firing point. It is very rare the the 50 yd line, 25 yd line and the target are in a line. It may feel like you are shooting diagonally to hit your target. 

You replace the entire cardboard when you change targets. No replacement centers. There will be white wagons behind the ranges with targets in them. When you go out to shoot your relay you need to get all the targets for the relay. Get 3 Slow targets and 6 Timed/Rapid targets. I always get 4 and 7 just in case there is a range alibi, a problem with a target or to give to another shooter who is short. Inspect your targets. Make sure the paper isn't peeling and there are no holes, marks or other distractions. If there aren't enough targets in the wagons, just wait. They will come around shortly and refill them.

Ranges have porta-potties on trailers behind the firing line. There is also a table with Igloo coolers of water, coffee and/or gatorade in the center near the tower.

When you arrive for your relay you wait behind the ready line. Relays 1 and 3 are usually allowed to put targets under the table at your firing point, but if you don't see others doing it, ask permission, but otherwise you can't go up to the bench until the tower announces "Relay 1 to the firing line. You may set your boxes on the benches. Do not open your gun box. This is not your 3 minute prep time". 

There are several different types of range officials.

Referees wear black and white stripes and sit under a small awning near the middle of the range. They only judge rules. They do not run the match. If you have a question about the rules they will answer it. If you challenge a target, they will score the target. They check the Timed Fire and Rapid Fire targets with a stopwatch to make sure the timing is right. They will correct shooters doing something wrong. If you foot or ankle is touching the bench they may tell you to move back. If you have a wrist watch or band on your shooting arm they may tell you to take it off. They weigh triggers at the beginning of the relay (though sometimes they skip it to save time).

Chief Range Officer (CRO) and Assistant Chief Range Officer (ACRO) wear light blue shirts. They run the match. They know what's going on. They tell the tower when to start commands. Any questions about the running of the match should be directed at them. If there is a cross-fire and you are going to refire the target, the CRO or ACRO needs to know. If you shoot a perfect score in a match (200-20X, 300-30X) the CRO needs to know because then you will shoot additional targets for "bonus X's".

Range Officers / Block Officers / Range Safety Officers wear orange vests and carry paddles. No they will not spank you if you do something wrong (not usually). The paddles are actually flags, some red and and green to indicate that section of the line is ready or not. Some range officers are volunteers who have been working at Perry for years and know what's going on. Others are brand new or National Guard soldiers ordered to be there who know nothing. The block officers with the green paddles usually know what's going on, but when in doubt, talk to the blue shirted CRO/ACRO. Your fellow competitors probably know what's going on, but anything with a grain of salt.

There's probably a lot more to add, but I risk overloading you. I could probably post this much info every day from now till the 4th of July and still not capture all the details about the National Matches at Camp Perry. As one friend said "everything at Camp Perry is 'that's the way they always do it' but that's really hard if this is your fist time.
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Post by Willfish30 on 4/17/2019, 12:03 am

SteveT

I'm going to Camp Perry for the first time this year. Your posts have been a great help!

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Post by CR10X on 4/17/2019, 6:03 am

Steve, thanks for putting this together.  I'd suggest someone combine your posts and put together a sticky for your information.

Small comments, but sometimes important details..... Pretty much everything at Perry is done according to the match program and the rules, so be sure to review them sometime. 

Referees wear black and white stripes and sit under a small awning near the middle of the range. They only judge rules. They do not run the match. If you have a question about the rules they will answer it. If you challenge a target, they will score the complete target. If you challenge a plugged shot and range personnel plug the shot, make sure the plug is not removed. They check the Timed Fire and Rapid Fire targets with a stopwatch to make sure the timing is right. They will correct shooters doing something wrong. If you foot or ankle is touching the bench they may tell you to move back. If you have a wrist watch or band on your shooting arm they may tell you to take it off. They weigh triggers at the beginning of the relay (though sometimes they skip it to save time).  In the past they sometimes weighed at the end of the relay, so make sure your gun makes weight. (That was not fun for some people!) There are CMP locations and military team trailers with gunsmiths to weigh triggers.  


Range Officers / Block Officers / Range Safety Officers wear orange vests and carry paddles. No they will not spank you if you do something wrong (not usually). The paddles are actually flags, some red and and green to indicate that section of the line is ready or not. Some range officers are volunteers who have been working at Perry for years and know what's going on. Others are brand new or National Guard soldiers ordered to be there who know nothing. The block officers with the green paddles usually know what's going on, but when in doubt, talk to the blue shirted CRO/ACRO.  If you have a rules question ask for a referee. Your fellow competitors probably know what's going on, but anything with a grain of salt.


If you are not ready for a RF or TF string, say "not ready" really loud, raise your hand and wait.  They may still continue the commands.  Do not change your position.  Simply wait for range personnel, CRO/ACRO, etc. Same if you have gun issues. They will sort it out and you will get to fire your string and your alibi string if needed.  


If you have gun issues on the long line, let range personnel know and get them to review your problem before trying to fix something.  That way, you get your time stopped more quickly and will get your remaining time to complete the string. 

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Post by Slartybartfast on 4/17/2019, 10:00 am

SteveT wrote:You replace the entire cardboard when you change targets. No replacement centers. 
Love it.

I have little competition experience, but one thing that bugged me at competition was the use of replacement centers.
I would have happily paid the difference between repair centre costs and complete target costs to avoid the issues with pasting holes and securing repair centers. And I would have had complete targets to take home at the end of the day with all my shots on them. (so many 1's and 2's Embarassed )
I would have happily given up the price of an end-of-day beer for the price of new cardboard backers for each relay too.

It's to be expected that a big competition such as Camp Perry do what is most efficient. It's an unfortunate reality I've observed that outside major competition shooters seem to penny pinch the cost a cartridge or two over doing things quick and professional. Then again, people look at me odd because I bring my own foam backer boards (a buck fifty buys a board that makes two backers FFS) to the range and ignore the hole ridden ones hanging from the target carriers.

Was going to consider going to Perry this year but travelling that distance with my firearms and crossing the border, gives me a slight feeling of dread and risks of confiscation in either direction. My results would be embarrassing no doubt, but the experience sounds great.
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