NRA Leaving Camp Perry

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Post by john bickar on 4/26/2019, 7:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

"The NRA Competitions Division has advised the CMP that this year's NRA Pistol Championships will be NRA's final competition at Camp Perry, Ohio. The decision to move all NRA championships to Atterbury, Indiana, is a business decision made solely by the NRA. The NRA believes this move will better position it to focus on the continuing battle to protect this country's Second Amendment rights.

The CMP is saddened by the decision, but respects the NRA's need to chart its future.

CMP remains fully committed to Camp Perry and the historic National Rifle and Pistol Matches which have been held there continuously since 1907. CMP will move forward to grow the Camp Perry matches and to continue modernizing the ranges in its partnership with the Ohio National Guard.

CMP and NRA are not at odds. Both organizations look forward to partnering in future competitions serving all competitors."




Wow.
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Post by dronning on 5/1/2019, 11:41 am

james r chapman wrote:Maybe the World Shooting Complex, Sparta, Illinois.
lol!  I do hope that was in jest.
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Post by Outthere on 5/2/2019, 5:59 am

chopper wrote:
Wobbley wrote:There are a bunch of us on the West Coast that do not think Camp Perry is anywhere near central.  
  Center of USA would be somewhere near central Nebraska about Nebraska-Kansas border.
Fifty percent of the USA's population lives within 600 miles from Nashville,TN.

Just a tidbit.

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Post by james r chapman on 5/2/2019, 7:34 am

dronning wrote:
james r chapman wrote:Maybe the World Shooting Complex, Sparta, Illinois.
lol!  I do hope that was in jest.
Uh, yeah...
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Post by james r chapman on 5/2/2019, 7:40 am

Outthere wrote:
chopper wrote:
Wobbley wrote:There are a bunch of us on the West Coast that do not think Camp Perry is anywhere near central.  
  Center of USA would be somewhere near central Nebraska about Nebraska-Kansas border.
Fifty percent of the USA's population lives within 600 miles from Nashville,TN.

Just a tidbit.
And the mean center of Precision Pistol shooters is?
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Post by Dcforman on 5/2/2019, 9:29 am

james r chapman wrote:
Outthere wrote:
chopper wrote:
Wobbley wrote:There are a bunch of us on the West Coast that do not think Camp Perry is anywhere near central.  
  Center of USA would be somewhere near central Nebraska about Nebraska-Kansas border.
Fifty percent of the USA's population lives within 600 miles from Nashville,TN.

Just a tidbit.
And the mean center of Precision Pistol shooters is?
Cardinal  lol!

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Post by Slartybartfast on 5/3/2019, 10:31 am

Competitions need to be run by a group that is dedicated to competitions and promotion of the sport.

The NRA has made it clear (as evidenced by all the complaints on this forum and elsewhere) that competition is not a priority. And the CMP announcement that the NRA were leaving Perry made it clear they at least think the NRA focus is NOT competition "The NRA believes this move will better position it to focus on the continuing battle to protect this country's Second Amendment rights."

The CMP should just play hardball IMO. Offer the same competitions, allow any competitor to submit NRA or CMP scores for record keeping, then promote, promote, promote.

If a CMP affiliated club can offer marksmen all bullseye has to offer without required membership and while focused on competition they're sure to come out better for it.

I may make a few enemies saying the following, but the error on Page 13 of the NRA Precision Pistol Rulebook that is still on-line, and the clear failure to keep all the rulebooks of all the disciplines updated and numbered identically as they claim they are quite frankly looks like a demonstration of a level of incompetence and a general disregard/disrespect for the sport. The people involved may be hardworking and well intentionned but that an error stays in place for so long without being corrected shows that as an organisation they either lack the knowledge, competence, or required resources.
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Post by Walter D on 5/6/2019, 9:32 pm

Mayflies, Mud, Rain, Wind, Lake Erie after shooting, Perch, 
The guys I shoot with talk more about the mud and rain and Mayflies then the scores. The perch fried, Cought that day.
The History of Perry is the most important part,  The Cannon that opens the days matches. This stuff about Central location is valid
but Camp Perry was started by our Military for Military. We can shoot BE anywhere but only Camp Perry makes the smile appear,
The stories to flow and the winds to Blow. This Country feels like History (our history ) isn't important anymore, 
I dont feel represented, and I'm offended. Im very new to Perry and its grown on me, Perry is were we should be, The history of this 
Place demands that we get this right, Make it right.  Camp Atterbury doesnt have perch or Mayflies or a history That provokes Butterflies 
in ones stomach.  I vote for were my Heart is now Camp Perry.     God Bless     Peace      Walter  Valparaiso Indiana

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Post by jglenn21 on 5/8/2019, 8:06 pm

NRA just posted that atterbury will have 300 covered points.
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Post by Danehogle on 5/8/2019, 9:14 pm

That’s great. But IMO I don’t see them needing 300 positions.

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Post by john bickar on 5/8/2019, 11:14 pm

jglenn21 wrote:NRA just posted that atterbury will have 300 covered points.

Link?

I thought I got an email just yesterday that the NRA would be kaput if I didn't cash out my 403b and IRAs and send it to them.
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Post by jglenn21 on 5/9/2019, 12:29 am

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/5/6/cole-mcculloch-provides-details-on-new-nra-national-marksmanship-competition-center/

Email.from the cmp
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Post by Outthere on 5/9/2019, 7:05 am

john bickar wrote:
jglenn21 wrote:NRA just posted that atterbury will have 300 covered points.

Link?

I thought I got an email just yesterday that the NRA would be kaput if I didn't cash out my 403b and IRAs and send it to them.
The NRA has plenty of money. It's just a matter of what they want to spend it on. And who gets their end.

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Post by Outthere on 5/9/2019, 7:09 am

jglenn21 wrote:https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/5/6/cole-mcculloch-provides-details-on-new-nra-national-marksmanship-competition-center/

Email.from the cmp

Sounds great. I believe that history and tradition are important, but are not the be all and end all.

I'm willing to see how it pans out before I condemn it. It may work out just fine.

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Post by weber1b on 5/9/2019, 8:41 am

I for one plan to give it a try. Really don't see why not. I have enjoyed going to Perry the last few years. I expect I will be going back there for CMP matches. I also expect to go into Atterbury and have a good time there as well. To me it's also about the shooters gathered there and that's true no matter where we assemble.

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Post by dronning on 5/9/2019, 8:54 am

Outthere wrote:
john bickar wrote:
jglenn21 wrote:NRA just posted that atterbury will have 300 covered points.

Link?

I thought I got an email just yesterday that the NRA would be kaput if I didn't cash out my 403b and IRAs and send it to them.
The NRA has plenty of money. It's just a matter of what they want to spend it on. And who gets their end.
Bullseye is probably last on NRA's list of where the money goes, why because shooting sports are last on their Mission priorities (see below) and Bullseye is near last of the shooting sports.  This is simply because they can get more bang for their buck (visibility) at action shooting events, they get sponsorship's and TV time.

The NRA does a fantastic job on 2A and promoting safety through education and handing out grants for safety programs, but VERY LITTLE for Promoting the sport of Precision Shooting (Bullseye), or it's competitors or the Match Directors at the local level.

What has become more clear to me as I thought about it, the move to Atterbury wasn't about "We the Shooter's" is was about a making a "Statement" and putting the NRA in the spotlight, trying to one up the CMP.

I've listened to the about 50/50 split on moving from Perry to a better location, for many hoping on a new location Atterbury wouldn't have been their 1st choice.

What everyone can agree on is neither NRA or CMP have provided:

  1. a framework to grow/promote the sport, I personally believe this needs to happen locally, but getting some support/direction would help
  2. a central location or method to communicate where and when matches are being held
  3. match management tools to make it easier to manage and report results on matches, plus history - most MD's are using outdated and limited excel based systems
  4. a way to develop sponsorship for State and Regional Matches
  5. rule reviews and implementation BY competitors
  6. transparency on what is being considered for the future of the sport
  7. they have not given the competitors a voice - at all


There have been pleas to the competition committee's to help fix these issues but all we hear is we are working on it.  It is apparent that "we the shooters" have very little influence with either the NRA or CMP, which is kind of sad and infuriating at the same time.    

- Dave
NRA Mission:  "To protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, especially with reference to the inalienable right of the individual American citizen guaranteed by such Constitution to acquire, possess, collect, exhibit, transport, carry, transfer ownership of, and enjoy the right to use arms." The statement also includes a focus on promoting public safety, training in the safe and efficient handling of small arms, hunter safety, and shooting sport promotion".
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Post by zanemoseley on 5/9/2019, 9:11 am

john bickar wrote:
jglenn21 wrote:NRA just posted that atterbury will have 300 covered points.

Link?

I thought I got an email just yesterday that the NRA would be kaput if I didn't cash out my 403b and IRAs and send it to them.

I've been getting the same emails. I've only had an NRA membership for a few years and I'm already sick of their BS propaganda emails and ads. Their YouTube ads feel more like fear mongering than a legit organization spreading their message. They ask for money so much it gets difficult to tell when my membership is actually due versus when they're just trying to get me to renew far ahead of time.

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Post by dronning on 5/9/2019, 9:28 am

Why I may not be happy with NRA's support of Bullseye BUT do not bite the hand.
NRA is facing some challenges they haven't had to face before.  They are always more vulnerable when there is a PRO 2A administration in the White House, because donations usually drop.  The left is getting smarter they are trying to bankrupt or at the very least cripple the NRA using several different strategies designed to further reduce their revenue and increase expenses (lawsuits).  This could actually work.

Just keep it in mind.
- Dave
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Post by Hawkja on 5/9/2019, 9:42 am

FWIW, I agree with weber1b, I plan on trying the Camp Atterbury "plan" as well. It could work out to where there are 3-4 excellent, competitive and well attended matches back to back in good venues (Canton, Cardinal, Atterbury, CMP Perry). I'm optimistic, but will wait and see.

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Post by spursnguns on 5/9/2019, 9:50 am

Too true, Dave.

Here in California we watched dumbfounded while Ducks Unlimited stabbed every pistol shooter, rifle shooter and non-shotgun hunter in the back.  Anti-gun and anti-hunting legislation was okay with them because it did not directly impact "their" sport of choice.  Without the NRA fighting the fight, we will loose our "right" to own a gun let alone enjoy our sport.

Jim
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Post by PhotoEscape on 5/9/2019, 10:32 am

zanemoseley wrote:
john bickar wrote:
jglenn21 wrote:NRA just posted that atterbury will have 300 covered points.

Link?

I thought I got an email just yesterday that the NRA would be kaput if I didn't cash out my 403b and IRAs and send it to them.

I've been getting the same emails. I've only had an NRA membership for a few years and I'm already sick of their BS propaganda emails and ads. Their YouTube ads feel more like fear mongering than a legit organization spreading their message. They ask for money so much it gets difficult to tell when my membership is actually due versus when they're just trying to get me to renew far ahead of time.


Zane,
This one of your comments that I "favor" so much!! Is NRA only organization calling for your donations? If I list all who's soliciting donations from my wife and I, list would fill couple of pages. This is how it works, get real! And in my book NRA and ISRA (IL State Rifle Asso.) are the organizations worth supporting, as there are few and far in between, who are actually fighting for something that is of great importance for me, and I venture to say for this country.

Everyone is up on arms frustrated about Camp Perry, and chief complain is the historic value of this place!! How about value of History of how this country became a nation, The People!!

I'm with guys who stated support for NRA here, - I encourage everyone to have clear understanding that Second Amendment protection takes precedence for NRA over everything else.
AP
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Post by zanemoseley on 5/9/2019, 10:42 am

Of course I get the occasional request for donation, like from the college me and my wife attended. Of course they are much more polite and eloquent in their approach. The NRA's approach to "fund raising" is worse than a used car salesman. Their current ploy has them claiming they are nearing a supposed shutdown. I of course support the 2nd amendment but not necessarily the NRA's tactics.


Last edited by zanemoseley on 5/9/2019, 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Mel427 on 5/9/2019, 10:47 am

PhotoEscape wrote:
zanemoseley wrote:
john bickar wrote:
jglenn21 wrote:NRA just posted that atterbury will have 300 covered points.

Link?

I thought I got an email just yesterday that the NRA would be kaput if I didn't cash out my 403b and IRAs and send it to them.

I've been getting the same emails. I've only had an NRA membership for a few years and I'm already sick of their BS propaganda emails and ads. Their YouTube ads feel more like fear mongering than a legit organization spreading their message. They ask for money so much it gets difficult to tell when my membership is actually due versus when they're just trying to get me to renew far ahead of time.

Zane,
This one of your comments that I "favor" so much!!  Is NRA only organization calling for your donations?  If I list all who's soliciting donations from my wife and I, list would fill couple of pages.  This is how it works, get real!  And in my book NRA and ISRA (IL State Rifle Asso.) are the organizations worth supporting, as there are few and far in between, who are actually fighting for something that is of great importance for me, and I venture to say for this country.

Everyone is up on arms frustrated about Camp Perry, and chief complain is the historic value of this place!!  How about value of History of how this country became a nation, The People!!

I'm with guys who stated support for NRA here, - I encourage everyone to have clear understanding that Second Amendment protection takes precedence for NRA over everything else.  
AP
Explain how moving from Perry is a step for the 2nd amendment? Next, if you're really serious about your rights, study a little history and you'll find the NRA has not exactly been your friend. They've supported gun control measures in the past and have refused to take on other cases that other, less funded gun rights groups have won.
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Post by Danehogle on 5/9/2019, 11:11 am

There might be some miss understanding here.
First, I am by no way saying to stop supporting the NRA in the endeavor of protecting the 2nd  amendment. My membership dues should be going towards that.  What I am saying is that it is time for the prospect of a new association devoted solely to the competitors and the growth of our sport.  Let’s face it, if this were any other hobby/ sport and you had to send in $5 of your entry fee, to only receive second rate service, an incoherent rule book, incomplete list of future events, non existent software and tools, results that take several months to see posted, and awards that are no longer valid.... 
you would stay very long. We all as competitors have worked to make this better, only to be ignored and deemed unimportant. I for one, am frustrated with the lack of any type of communication from the NRA other than the plea for more money. 
Will I continue to support the NRA’s efforts to protect my rights.... yes
Will I continue to send them money in the form of match fees, only to see that money used  for other things besides competitors? Well? 
I have to say, I’ll be looking for more  alternatives , and options.


Last edited by Danehogle on 5/9/2019, 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Post by mspingeld on 5/9/2019, 12:12 pm

From the NRA website:

Established in 1990, The NRA Foundation, Inc. (“NRA Foundation”) is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization that raises tax-deductible contributions in support of a wide range of firearm-related public interest activities of the National Rifle Association of America and other organizations that defend and foster the Second Amendment rights of all law-abiding Americans.

This was not designed to support competitive shooting. Competitive shooting (and other NRA activities) are designed to support the defense of, and foster, the Second Amendment rights of all law-abiding Americans.

This is not a bad thing! I agree with Dane. I will continue to support the NRA's mission.

In addition, I will support a new organization whose sole purpose is to make the sport I've grown to love, thrive.

Two organizations, two different missions; both important to me.

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Post by dronning on 5/9/2019, 1:11 pm

Mel427 wrote:Explain how moving from Perry is a step for the 2nd amendment? Next, if you're really serious about your rights, study a little history and you'll find the NRA has not exactly been your friend. They've supported gun control measures in the past and have refused to take on other cases that other, less funded gun rights groups have won.
I think the "big step for 2A" statement was made to appease those that don't want the NRA to spend a dime on anything BUT defending 2A, and there are probably far more of them than there are Bullseye competitors.

Don't let the left divide and conquer.  The NRA has fought for 2A long and hard, have they made mistakes? absolutely, do I disagree with them at times, yes.  But I don't take those arguments out in public to give fodder to those that who pretend to be friends of 2A with their "all we simply want is registration, not confiscation" arguments.  Even with all the NRA's warts, when it comes to fighting for 2A we are better with them than without.  That is why I will continue to support the NRA's efforts in defending 2A .


I personally feel that trying to support competitive shooting local matches are a distraction from defending 2A.  The NRA (& competitors) would be better off if the NRA handed those activities over to a separate, singularly focused competition organization. 
- Dave
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