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Post by bogierich on 5/6/2019, 3:45 pm

To all the members of the precision shooting community,

When www.PrecisionShootingMatches.com was first launched, it was done so to offer tools to help match directors organize, advertise and run their matches. It offers a place where competitors could easily find matches in any location. Since that launch, it has steadily grown into an ever-expanding collection of tools and innovative features to streamline the entire organizing, execution and subsequent reporting and recording of matches, sanctioned by the NRA, the CMP, local leagues and programs.

As these tools were presented, competitors and match directors communicated unhappiness about the lack of support for both shooters and grass roots match directors. We heard from competitors that they want a sanctioning body that is responsive to the competitors--a sanctioning body that seeks consensus from their membership before making fundamental changes to our sport. Many competitors expressed they’re clearly unhappy with the disregard toward the individual shooter exhibited by these organizations over the years.  We believe that a new organization that will preserve the sport's legacy should be formed to put the competitors and the local match directors FIRST. With Precision Shooting Matches software support, operations will be much more affordable by being more efficient where competitors' dollars will go farther to promote matches, secure sponsors, offer prizes, improve outreach, and grow the sport.

www.PrecisionShootingMatches.com has been designed for, and supports the competitor at the foundation level. Our intent is to create a new association that focuses on local match directors and competitors. We plan to continue supporting those who are tied to the NRA offering support for those matches and match directors just as we do now. But it’s far time that something is done to support you, the competitors, by creating a new association that puts the competitors first.

Therefore, Precision Shooting Matches has organized a team of individuals who are strong and well known in the precision shooting community. This team is working on pulling together legal, financial and marketing resources in order to form a better match sanctioning organization. Our organization will offer superior support, opportunities, prize structures and rewards for involvement to competitors and match directors who want a sanctioning body and association with a focus where it should be--with its members.

More details will follow as the plan moves forward in stages. There will likely be many questions from those interested and we will endeavor to answer your inquiries quickly.

We appreciate your patience and feedback while we do this the right way.

While we will be creating a new association, we don't have deep pockets from corporate donors. Since we only want to be responsive to our members, we are asking for contributions in order to make the non-profit 501c3 filings creating a competitor’s association.

Please help us get started to offer a new better option. Just click or copy/paste the following link and contribute what you can.

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=SM4VJZZRKEAHW&source=url 

Thank you for your support.

Officers to be announced
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Post by Founder on 5/6/2019, 4:03 pm

All,

I'm supportive of this. For years we have been asking NRA to provide an online match calendar, match director and competitor tools, and promote LOCAL MATCHES so there would be MORE opportunities for competitors to become aware of bullseye shooting and to participate. I have also been disappointed that the rules recommendations that the competitors have brought forward each year are dismissed, and we still have a rulebook that has typos and errors in it.

It's 2019. We need our sanctioning body to be responsive and to utilize today's technology to GROW OUR SPORT.

I think that this proposal is a good next step.

-Rob Kovach
Administrator
www.bullseyeforum.net


Last edited by Founder on 5/6/2019, 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Danehogle on 5/6/2019, 4:43 pm

I agree Rob..... Not only with the news that the NRA’s software system has yet again missed its roll out deadline( was told March 1 then April 1 ) and now the move to Atterbury.  I believe it is now time for a new start.  There has been no transparency or communication from the NRA to the shooting community. We are left in the dark, only to receive  the occasional Call for more money or the Email blast to promote action shooting at one range in WV.  Seeing as we as competitors are now forced to change, we might as well embrace it and go in a direction that is helpful to the shooting community. It seems only way that the NRA and CMP will ever “ get it “ is if we, the shooting community stand up and vote with our wallets.
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Post by LenV on 5/6/2019, 7:16 pm

I voted.  Laughing
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Post by DonBrummer on 5/6/2019, 7:30 pm

Me too
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Post by LateBoomer on 5/6/2019, 8:36 pm

I’m supportive so long as the new organization works in good faith / partnership with the CMP

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Post by BrianD on 5/7/2019, 6:49 am

I will have to wait until I see who the officers are and what direction they want to take the matches.

As in the past there has been a lot of talk and most surrounded leaving Perry.

I have let the NRA know how I strongly I feel that was wrong.

For me a new group having the "National Match" someplace other than Perry will not interest me.

I have shot at Perry every year for over 20 years and it is special to me.

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Post by mspingeld on 5/7/2019, 7:20 am

BrianD, I agree. Perry has the history but...it's over. The NRA made that clear. They're moving to Indiana, with, or without us. Our feelings did not go in to their decision making process which is the heart of the problem. They are not shooter-centric. For a new sanctioning organization to make a "National Match" succeed, it will have to be an event, not just a match. I, for one, think this change is due and I let them know with my wallet. Rich, Rob, Dane, let me know how I can help.

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Post by dronning on 5/7/2019, 7:58 am

There are a lot of clubs that hold non NRA matches that would like to have a sanctioning body that is shooter friendly, A lot of shooters too.  Working seamlessly with both the CMP & NRA would be a must. 

Perry is over, there is a new venue being built (Cardinal) that is on it's way to being a world class pistol range.  It won't have the mud, mayflies or history of Perry but will be a great place to make new memories.

Going to see for myself at their July 2nd, 3rd 3600 

Voted with my wallet via the link above.
- Dave
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Post by Founder on 5/7/2019, 11:41 am

I would envision that the new group would decide on a national championship location by presenting the facts about venue costs, pros, and cons to the competitors and decide based on those facts and competitor feedback.

All we as competitors have wanted was to be informed and involved. I would envision that all operations of the new organization would be more or less an open book and that (except for cases where vendors would demand confidentiality) all operations would be available for the members to review including discussions during meetings.

It's 2019 and the technology to share this operational data has existed for some time now. Competitors should be kept in the loop.
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Post by Mel427 on 5/8/2019, 1:33 am

I agree with briand anything that would cause further harm to the CMP and Camp Perry I would be against and at this point I don't think I'm ready to join an organization that just wants to promote a change for change sake or to promote yet another national championship at the place they think it should be at.
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Post by dronning on 5/8/2019, 8:59 am

The National Match is ONE event, to me this effort should be more about the other 99.9% of the events and the sport as a whole.  

You don't grow the sport with a National Match, it's done at the Local, State & Regional level.  The NRA or CMP for that matter have done very little to help with that effort.

Now there is finally a tool www.PrecisionShootingMatches.com that does what we have been asking both NRA & CMP to do for the shooters and Match Directors.  I also see this as an HUGE opportunity to capture ALL Bullseye activity in ONE place.

A new Sanctioning Body will have to work with both the NRA & CMP but the #1 priority (safety first of course):
Grow the Sport/Promotion  

  1. Promote the sport, I can't tell you how many times I have had to explain Bullseye to other shooters.
  2. How do we attract new shooters? introduction clinics, fun shoots?  What should be included in a introduction clinic format?  Bring a buddy program, bring a new shooter get 1/2 off entry....
  3. How do we increase participation of existing shooters? Maybe more short matches, like a NMC 3 gun, 25yd only, leagues or ..........
  4. Shooter education/training, ABC's of how to get started.  Info is out there but spread out everywhere.
  5. How about developing a process that can be followed to help get sponsors for at least State & Regional shoots.  Have class awards but how about having a random award that anyone can win and make it bigger than a class award.
  6. Develop a "How To" or provide help on getting new ranges to hold matches, maybe without turning targets at first, you could do a low ready for those matches.
  7. .....


- Dave
a little stream of consciousness
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Post by inthebeech on 5/8/2019, 11:05 am

By "association" may we assume that nothing is off the table; that nostalgic components of the current set of rules such as the course of fire, rules for firearms...are potential places where changes might be made in the process of an entirely new rulebook and in the spirit of increasing participation?
Just trying to get a better grasp of what the real boundaries are when one talks of an association.
It sounds very exciting.
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Post by PhotoEscape on 5/8/2019, 2:22 pm

I see two separate issues here:
a. Building better tools for Match Organizers / Directors and Shooters - I'm all for it and ready to support such;
b. Creating another governing body for one or another shooting discipline - I'm totally against such;

To explain my position, let me start from the second issue.  IMHO we don't need another "Arena Football League" or WWW Federation, at least as this time.  Such governing body will create nothing more but another bureaucracy and add to fragmentation of the sport and its participants.  I understand that at this time there is an opportunistic moment for the proposed initiative.  However other than recognizing that by the group I don't see anything supporting initiative, - I reviewed website, and this is only what I found pertaining to new governing body: "PrecisionShootingMatches.com is designed for, and supports the competitor at the foundation level. Our intent is to create a new association that focuses on local match directors and competitors." - https://precisionshootingmatches.com/about-psm/a-new-precision-shooting-sanctioning-organization/
Other than that I don't see anything showing clear direction or program of this shooting sanctioning organization.  I don't even see what shooting disciplines will be sanctioned, although in "tools" section many got listed.  I see statement of supporting CMP and NRA shooters, and plea to be patient, while programs being developed.  This is too little for me to be supportive off this part of the initiative, regardless of stated above opinion that "new league" is unnecessary.

However I do appreciate drive for new tools, and I see positive signs on the website - https://precisionshootingmatches.com/matches/  This is good!  Alone with other parts of the website, that concentrates on competitors and match directors, and provides valuable resources, I see benefits right away.

With the above, my take on the initiative would be a suggestion to concentrate on tools / participants, and become liaison between competitors / match directors on one end and NRA / CMP on another.  In essence becoming a shooters portal to NRA / CMP systems, as opposed to becoming a third or whatever number it might be (ISSF, IDPA, etc.).    

AP
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Post by bogierich on 5/8/2019, 2:30 pm

inthebeech wrote:By "association" may we assume that nothing is off the table; that nostalgic components of the current set of rules such as the course of fire, rules for firearms...are potential places where changes might be made in the process of an entirely new rulebook and in the spirit of increasing participation?
Just trying to get a better grasp of what the real boundaries are when one talks of an association.
It sounds very exciting.

We are talking about an organization that offers the opportunity to change what has annoyed the vast majority of competitors for a long time, while at the same time keeping the spirit of our sport alive and growing. Sponsorships, a better award system, ease of use, better/simpler tools for match directors, and the chance for the voices of the competitors and match directors to be heard and given weight in the decisions that are made to further the sport.

Let's all also keep this firmly in mind that we are at the very beginning stages of this endeavor. We haven't even announced all the principal players to date. The call for patience is to be taken literally. More information will be made available as soon as possible with the utmost emphasis on transparency (starting to hate that word because it sounds "political"). No one is asking anyone to sign on the dotted line. No one is looking to have you tear up your NRA classification cards. If a donation is something you feel strongly about then the tool is there to do so. If not--well, then just take your time and make your decision based on what you see over the next few weeks/months. A 5013c is not an easy task, but we're in the works.
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Post by Wobbley on 5/8/2019, 2:46 pm

I’m in favor of kicking the NRA “in the pants” about their neglect of competitive shooting. But I’m not sure a new competitive shooting association is the answer. We already have the CMP and, for that matter USA Shooting; so what would a new association bring? Other than more fragmentation I really can’t see it helping.

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Post by Mel427 on 5/8/2019, 3:02 pm

dronning wrote:The National Match is ONE event, to me this effort should be more about the other 99.9% of the events and the sport as a whole.  

You don't grow the sport with a National Match, it's done at the Local, State & Regional level.  The NRA or CMP for that matter have done very little to help with that effort.

Now there is finally a tool www.PrecisionShootingMatches.com that does what we have been asking both NRA & CMP to do for the shooters and Match Directors.  I also see this as an HUGE opportunity to capture ALL Bullseye activity in ONE place.

A new Sanctioning Body will have to work with both the NRA & CMP but the #1 priority (safety first of course):
Grow the Sport/Promotion  

  1. Promote the sport, I can't tell you how many times I have had to explain Bullseye to other shooters.
  2. How do we attract new shooters? introduction clinics, fun shoots?  What should be included in a introduction clinic format?  Bring a buddy program, bring a new shooter get 1/2 off entry....
  3. How do we increase participation of existing shooters? Maybe more short matches, like a NMC 3 gun, 25yd only, leagues or ..........
  4. Shooter education/training, ABC's of how to get started.  Info is out there but spread out everywhere.
  5. How about developing a process that can be followed to help get sponsors for at least State & Regional shoots.  Have class awards but how about having a random award that anyone can win and make it bigger than a class award.
  6. Develop a "How To" or provide help on getting new ranges to hold matches, maybe without turning targets at first, you could do a low ready for those matches.
  7. .....


- Dave
a little stream of consciousness

The National Match is not just a match, it is supposed to be the match, that's like saying the World Series or the Super Bowl are just games. Everything else is just practice sessions until you get to State Championships, regionals and the Nationals. I don't see where yet another organizations involvement will do anything other than fracture our sport further.
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Post by Slartybartfast on 5/8/2019, 3:08 pm

Here's my observation as a poor sap trying to find matches:

I _HATE_ the fact there's a match just 2 hours south of me and I'm livid that the state association is so disorganised that they don't have matches on their website or in their calendar.

But, I can't bring myself to bitch to the dedicated match director. He's doing a fine job getting CMP and NRA components of the match registered and sanctioned.

Need a LOT of carrot and no stick.

Now, if PSM could deal with getting the info out to the NRA, the CMP, and create a linkable calendar that the state association could put on their pistol page, then the match director's job is easier.

As long as the NRA and CMP are kept in the loop, the PSM is not fragmenting, it's uniting.

Then, do a better job of creating a rule book, and either the NRA and CMP get their act together or at some point so much of the match info is going through the PSM that the NRA and CMP are moot. At the very least, the amount of money being funnelled through the one point to the two organisations would create a large negotiating position to demand more support or to force them to justify the money coming in.

BTW, I'm a technical writer by trade. If there's rulebooks to work on, maybe I can help.
I also served on a Provincial school board parent's committee that had an $85k budget. Best thing we ever did was develop a common CMS web platform that affiliated groups could use for their web pages.
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Post by Jack H on 5/8/2019, 3:19 pm

First question I have is about the authority, if any, to name a National Champion.  Does the NRA have any official credential similar to the USAS as a NGB ?
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