WST powder vs Bullseye

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WST powder vs Bullseye Empty WST powder vs Bullseye

Post by mikemyers on Wed May 15, 2019 8:57 pm

I'm curious about something.  Lots of people have suggested I switch from Bullseye Powder to WST.  For me, this is for 38 Special and 45.

There was a short comparison here:  https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t1037-wst-vs-be-comparison

I ordered some WST today, and plan to start using it very soon.

If there are no disadvantages, only advantages, why do so many people still shoot Bullseye powder?

Long ago, the only powder I used was Unique.  Then people I trusted suggested Bullseye was preferable.  Now WST seems to be cleaner, and able to meter better, with no loss in accuracy.  Apparently it is slightly bulkier too.  So, as usual, I'm wondering "what's the catch?".  Is there something about WST that I just don't know about yet?
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Post by dronning on Wed May 15, 2019 10:01 pm

WST & Bullseye are both great powders.  They do have different recoil impulses and some people prefer Bullseye 's recoil impulse for sustained fire.  It's been around forever and many people just don't see a need to change.  For me it was that WST is much cleaner.

Both are very accurate fairly fast burning powders, but so are Vectan Ba10 & Vitivori N310 & Clays which I shot  for several years and loved it but I couldn't get either Clays or Bullseye during the shortage.  WST was available on a limited basis and that's when I made the switch.  I still use Clays in my 38 Special(s) because it is the bulkiest powder out there so it fills more of the case.  I have 8lbs of both Bullseye and Vectan Ba10 in my inventory that I will start to use after the WST runs out.
- Dave
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Post by SteveT on Wed May 15, 2019 10:20 pm

Yeah, what he said.

The only real reason to switch is WST is a bit cleaner. Maybe one will produce 1/4" smaller groups than the other, but most of us would be better off using a good load and practicing rather than searching for the holy grail of loads.
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Post by mikemyers on Wed May 15, 2019 11:27 pm

dronning wrote:........I still use Clays in my 38 Special(s) because it is the bulkiest powder out there so it fills more of the case.......
I remember something about Clays, and "red dot", and being bulkier, so it fills more of the case......     At some point I need to look into that again, but I just ordered some 38 Special ammo, so I won't need to switch my press over to 38 for a while, and I can concentrate on 45.  Bulky sounds good - but WST is supposed to meter very well, which I'm still concerned with.  

Both of you are reminding me why I switched from Bullseye to WST.  I was planning on switching to something bulkier, until we got into a discussion, and WST was suggested by so many people.  

I still need to talk to Terry at Magnus Bullets, and ask what load he recommends for WST with his #801 bullets.
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Post by james r chapman on Thu May 16, 2019 5:54 am

The problem with powders like clays is bridging in some measures like the Lee. It shoots great then ‘pufff”. Disconcerting. WST  all the way.
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Post by DA/SA on Thu May 16, 2019 7:26 am

james r chapman wrote:The problem with powders like clays is bridging in some measures like the Lee. It shoots great then ‘pufff”. Disconcerting. 

I use Dillon powder measures and use a lot of 700X for .40, which is a large flake powder that doesn't like to drop very consistently.

I remedied that by attaching a small aquarium air pump to the outside of the powder hopper. The pump creates just enough vibration to keep the flakes settled and even out the drops.

I use Austrailian Clay's for .45 and have not had an issue with it, but would do the same for the powder measure on that press if needed.

I also never leave powder in the hopper unless I am using the press. It seems like that could also lead to clumping or bridging issues if left for longer periods of time. I always like to watch the powder as it is being poured into the hopper to make sure it is flowing smoothly.

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Post by james r chapman on Thu May 16, 2019 7:37 am

+1 on the vibrator.
I’m hooking up the wife’s Hitachi .
I think the pulse setting will be the ticket.
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Post by desben on Thu May 16, 2019 7:42 am

WST, like most powders, can be affected by temperature. It can be a factor for the action sports where there is a power factor to make. Not usually an issue with precision pistol.

Otherwise, WST is the best. I now use it in everything, including to sweeten my coffee, to keep my shoes smelling fresh, as a fertilizer AND pesticide, to wash my tub, etc. It excels in every application  Laughing
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Post by desben on Thu May 16, 2019 7:44 am

james r chapman wrote:+1 on the vibrator.
I’m hooking up the wife’s Hitachi .
I think the pulse setting will be the ticket.

Been there... This was for 700x. Thankfully this is not required for WST.

WST powder vs Bullseye 20309822384_3f3696327b
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Post by robert84010 on Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 am

well that's a first. 

seems like I could have gone another 20 years of bullseye  shooting without seeing that.

canadians- always looking for an opportunity to display their "tools". "What? it's for my powder measure"

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Post by mikemyers on Thu May 16, 2019 8:25 am

robert84010 wrote:well that's a first.................seems like I could have gone another 20 years of bullseye  shooting without seeing that...............canadians- always looking for an opportunity to display their "tools". "What? it's for my powder measure"
Er, I don't think I want this to be part of my reloading system.  From what I've read here, I'll be quite happy with the WST.  Midway took my order, but I haven't gotten any information on shipping yet.  In the meantime, I stick with Bullseye.
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Post by inthebeech on Thu May 16, 2019 9:35 am

deleted.


Last edited by inthebeech on Thu May 16, 2019 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by SteveT on Thu May 16, 2019 2:27 pm

mikemyers wrote:I remember something about Clays, and "red dot", and being bulkier, so it fills more of the case......     

From Bulkiest to Lightest to Heaviest in grains per rotation of my Dillon powder meter

  1. 0.38 Trailboss 
  2. 0.57 Clays
  3. 0.62 Solo 1000
  4. 0.68 N310 
  5. 0.69 N320 
  6. 0.69 WST 
  7. 0.77 N330 
  8. 0.78 Bullseye 
  9. 0.90 HP38 
  10. 0.93 Power Pistol 
  11. 0.98 Titegroup 


Last edited by SteveT on Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by TonyH on Thu May 16, 2019 2:41 pm

+1 on the vibrator.
I’m hooking up the wife’s Hitachi .
I think the pulse setting will be the ticket.

One of these hooked up to a powder measure would work even better.....lol!

WST powder vs Bullseye Sub-bu11
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Post by Wobbley on Thu May 16, 2019 2:50 pm

desben wrote:
james r chapman wrote:+1 on the vibrator.
I’m hooking up the wife’s Hitachi .
I think the pulse setting will be the ticket.

Been there... This was for 700x. Thankfully this is not required for WST.

WST powder vs Bullseye 20309822384_3f3696327b

WST powder vs Bullseye 3add3410
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Post by troystaten on Fri May 17, 2019 10:43 pm

Wow this thread got different quickly.

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Post by mikemyers on Sat May 18, 2019 5:47 pm

Ha!!!    

Spent this afternoon cleaning three guns.  All with lots of reminders of the Bullseye powder I used.  Who knows, maybe I'll notice a big difference once my WST arrives later this week.

As to the Eye Bleach....     no thanks!!!
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Post by GerhardG on Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:21 pm

SteveT wrote:
mikemyers wrote:I remember something about Clays, and "red dot", and being bulkier, so it fills more of the case......     

From Bulkiest to Lightest in grains per rotation of my Dillon powder meter

  1. 0.38 Trailboss 
  2. 0.57 Clays
  3. 0.62 Solo 1000
  4. 0.68 N310 
  5. 0.69 N320 
  6. 0.69 WST 
  7. 0.77 N330 
  8. 0.78 Bullseye 
  9. 0.90 HP38 
  10. 0.93 Power Pistol 
  11. 0.98 Titegroup 

Could you elaborate on this?
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Post by SteveT on Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:39 pm

Sorry, that should read from Lightest / Bulkiest to Heaviest / Densest.

One rotation of my Dillon Powder measure adjuster adds 0.38gr more Trail Boss powder.

One rotation of my Dillon Powder measure adjuster adds 0.98gr more Titegroup powder
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Post by BE Mike on Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:46 am

Find a fast burning powder you like and stick with it. It really doesn't make much difference. I used dirty ole Bullseye for decades and I can't remember a jam from residue buildup. Clays, SOLO 1000, N310 and WST apparently are cleaner, if that is a concern. When I tried WST, many years ago on the advice of Ralph Talbot, a high master, I found that I was getting unburned grains left after ignition. Maybe something was wrong with my reloading process, but I switched back to Bullseye. Ralph had great success with WST.
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Post by oldsalt444 on Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:56 am

WST is my "go to" powder for cast bullets.  It is slower burning than BE, along the same speed as Green Dot.  The recoil impulse is a bit softer than BE, which is a bit snappier.  It is cleaner, very accurate and meters well.  But BE has been around for over 100 years and is still the favorite of many shooters.  There must be a reason, and that says a lot.  In a word, accuracy.  

For all the vibrator specialists out there, try the Lee Auto Drum powder measure.  Problem solved.  I had the Lee disk measure and used the aquarium pump trick, too.  I never looked back.
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Post by Allgoodhits on Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:20 pm

The only negative I have with WST is that it appears to be more susceptible to static electricity. IOW, granules cling to the sides of the hopper. It does not create any problem, just have to tap the hopper, mainly when emptying it back to the container. 

I tend to use about 2+/- more grains of WST to accomplish what BE does. The additional grains and the fact that WST is less dense than BE, the volume of powder in the case is greater. The less empty space in the case, helps reduce powder position sensitivity, especially with lighter loads. Clays, and Alliant E3 are even less dense. Trail Boss is the least dense powder I am aware of, but I don't find it as accurate for 25 to 50 yd applications on small scoring areas. Some claim WST is temperature sensitive. I have heard some swear that it gets hotter in the heat, while others swear it gets softer in the heat.  Verdict is not clear to me on that.
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Post by DA/SA on Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:51 pm

oldsalt444 wrote:For all the vibrator specialists out there, try the Lee Auto Drum powder measure.  Problem solved.  
Bought one and tried it for a couple of days on my Dillon 650, as it was supposedly better for flake powders, and sent it back as it wasn't as repeatable as my Dillon powder measure. (Using Clays, 700X, and Red Dot)

Not saying they aren't better, just wasn't working for me.

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Post by oldsalt444 on Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:16 pm

DA/SA wrote:
oldsalt444 wrote:For all the vibrator specialists out there, try the Lee Auto Drum powder measure.  Problem solved.  
Bought one and tried it for a couple of days on my Dillon 650, as it was supposedly better for flake powders, and sent it back as it wasn't as repeatable as my Dillon powder measure. (Using Clays, 700X, and Red Dot)

Not saying they aren't better, just wasn't working for me.

By all means, use what works best for you.  The big problem with the Lee Pro Disk measure is "powder bridging" with large flake powders in small amounts.  Those small cavities in the disks would often get bridged over by the large flakes and you'd only get a tiny amount of powder to drop.  BANG, BANG, puff.  After a few of those (and even with using the aquarium pump), I switched over to the Auto Drum.  Never had a problem since.
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Post by atrfod on Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:36 pm

WST is great for .38 Special as well.I first started using it in my ICORE days.Lead friendly,very accurate,easy to make PF,and it kept the cylinders clean for a days worth of quick reloads out of Speedloaders.-Mike

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