CMP Highpower Rifle

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Post by Slartybartfast on 5/16/2019, 4:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

Okay, so while I'm still struggling to get ATF approval to get my current firearms into the USA for a match the idea of shooting regularly in available matches in the USA has grabbed my focus and I'm looking for a 45 pistol and a 22LR sporting rifle and a Highpower rifle.

So for Highpower rifle I'm looking at my options. Not familiar with the different courses of fire, so just looking at my rifle options.

- M16/AR15-Type Service Rifle 
Would like to own one, but they're restricted weapons here. Treated like handguns and transport and where you can fire is limited. Would be very difficult to practice with one.

- CMP Alternative Rifle
Certainly a possibility. I'll assume that a resident of a country where AR15 are problematic to own will be considered similar to the rule "Residents of states where the ownership of a Service Rifle that complies with Rule 4.1.1 is prohibited by law may use a CMP Alternative Rifle".
I'm guessing any of these would qualify:
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/kodiak-defense-wk180c-223-18-7.html
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/ruger-mini-14-synthetic-5-56-nato-18-5.html
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/swiss-arms-black-special-5-56-nato-20-1-7-twist-diopter.html
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/bushmaster-acr-dmr-223-rem-18-6.html

But it seems the HK SL8 might not be acceptable (.225 not 5.56)
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/heckler-koch-sl8-5-223-rem-20.html#.XN3Z9RRKjRY

- M14/M1A-Type Service Rifle
I wonder if a Chinese made Norinco could be imported temporarily for competition. But the rules say a 20 round magazine is necesssary. We're limited to 5 max.
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/norinco-m14-m305-308-win-22.html
Or an actual Springfield?
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/springfield-national-match-m1a-308-win-22-walnut.html#.XN3bdxRKjRY

- CMP Match Rifle
- Long Range Service Rifle
Would an AR-10 derivative rifle be acceptable?
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/black-creek-labs-bcl102-308-win-18-5-flat-dark-earth.html
https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/stag-arms-stag-10-gi-m-lok-308-win-18-75-left-hand-rifle.html

Or if I win the Lotto: https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/heckler-koch-g28-308-win-16-5.html

Opinions?
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Post by pgg on 6/3/2019, 8:51 pm

Jack H wrote:Ah.  The human factor. 
I one time saw a Triple D HM call an alibi real early in a string.  No doubt thinking he had a dud.  No.  He had an empty mag.

I'm not a triple distinguished high master but I once loaded six rounds in my eight round magazine for an EIC match. Shot the 2 round magazine, reloaded with the 6 emptied it, thought Huh, that went fast, smiled at my scorer because I broke a bunch of great shots, and he's just shaking his head at me. Because he was better at counting than me. Got back on the spotting scope when the target came up and successfully added 5 Xs and 3 tens to make 80. And I drove home without any leg points that day.

Now I use the transparent Lancer AWM magazines so I can count the rounds in the magazine over and over again like some kind of round-counting Rain Man ...

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Post by adminbot1911 on 6/4/2019, 6:41 am

pgg wrote:
Jack H wrote:Ah.  The human factor. 
I one time saw a Triple D HM call an alibi real early in a string.  No doubt thinking he had a dud.  No.  He had an empty mag.

I'm not a triple distinguished high master but I once loaded six rounds in my eight round magazine for an EIC match. Shot the 2 round magazine, reloaded with the 6 emptied it, thought Huh, that went fast, smiled at my scorer because I broke a bunch of great shots, and he's just shaking his head at me. Because he was better at counting than me. Got back on the spotting scope when the target came up and successfully added 5 Xs and 3 tens to make 80. And I drove home without any leg points that day.

Now I use the transparent Lancer AWM magazines so I can count the rounds in the magazine over and over again like some kind of round-counting Rain Man ...
I confirm the number of rounds in my magazine about the same number of times that I check my seat number on my ticket at the airport.  Which is to say that I seem to have the memory of a goldfish.
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Post by jmdavis on 6/4/2019, 8:58 am

For the AR, I have marked mags for 2 and 8. I only ever load 2 and 8 with the service rifle. I did load 5 and 5 with the match rifle when I shot it in NRA competition. 

An M1 or the M1a/M14 can be competitive if you work with it. It will want to knock you out of position, be prepared for it. People will tell you that you can't shoot it well standing. I know people who have shot cleans in standing and 490's in the EIC with the M1. You absolutely can shoot it well. 

If an M1 was my only option, I would be ok with that. It is harder to shoot it as well as the AR, and it is more expensive to build, shoot and maintain an NM class service rifle. But it can be done. But again, if I wasn't going for the Distinguished badge I would shoot a Match Rifle, maybe even something like a Swiss K31 with diopter sights or even a Target grade Enfield.  

I think that the last person to distinguish with the M1 exclusively was Doug Armstrong in 2006. Once he got his badge he picked up the AR and shot a different M1 for Garand matches.
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Post by Wobbley on 6/4/2019, 12:20 pm

If you do decide on an M1, rebarrel it to 308. They’re not necessarily more accurate, but they hold up just a bit longer.
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Post by CO1Mtn on 6/9/2019, 6:46 pm

What if you meet up with another shooter or a reservist from the AMU who has a spare rifle that you can shoot for the match? Then you don't have to import any firearms. You can just show up and shoot. You could just buy some 77 gr HP match ammo at Bass Pro or Cabelas and buy the guy dinner as thanks for letting you borrow some equipment. You could buy a shooting coat tailored to you and a glove before you fly, and I'm sure that would be allowed on the plane. Everything else, you can borrow?
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Post by NuJudge on 6/9/2019, 7:07 pm

Maybe you could just buy an appropriate upper half, and talk someone into loaning you a lower half.  

I don't know whether Canadian law would let you take your upper half back north.

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Post by Slartybartfast on 6/10/2019, 10:26 am

CO1Mtn wrote:What if you meet up with another shooter or a reservist from the AMU who has a spare rifle that you can shoot for the match? Then you don't have to import any firearms. You can just show up and shoot. You could just buy some 77 gr HP match ammo at Bass Pro or Cabelas and buy the guy dinner as thanks for letting you borrow some equipment. You could buy a shooting coat tailored to you and a glove before you fly, and I'm sure that would be allowed on the plane. Everything else, you can borrow?
My first ever 2700, DR, and Service Pistol were shot with borrowed equipment. I'm very grateful to Larry Grace, Steve Kirby, and Rob Tucker in Vermont for the effort they went to to supply me with firearms and ammo on top of running a top notch event.
I'll take advantage of any equipment I can borrow to try out disciplines or learn new skills, but it's not the same as going to competition with your own equipment.
My issue is more finding something that's non-restricted here in Canada so that I can practice with the least number of constraints.

NuJudge wrote:Maybe you could just buy an appropriate upper half, and talk someone into loaning you a lower half.  

I don't know whether Canadian law would let you take your upper half back north.
I believe under Canadian law if I split the upper and lowers I'd certainly be able to travel around legally with the upper.
But then may as well borrow a complete firearm if I'm going to have a different trigger, grip, and stock as the ones I practice with.
Legally I don't think there would be any issue re-importing as long as I had proof of purchase.
Without proof of purchase the danger of being charged under ITAR for exporting without a licence would worry me. And customs and border will be interesting to deal with trying to explain why I'm travelling around with an upper and not a lower. Even if totally legal, I think that would be an almost guaranteed detailed search of my vehicle and belongings each way.
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Post by lyman1903 on 6/19/2019, 10:00 am

sounds like  you need to  make friends with a local competitor.
have them store a lower for you,  set up exactly like your home version (if possible, not sure of AR legalities in Canada) 
and then mail your upper to them, shoot the matches, and mail the upper back to you, 
thinking it would be easier to mail vs the customs at the border part?
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Post by radjag on 6/19/2019, 10:42 am

Sorry if this is slightly off topic. And obviously the cost is a major factor. But AFAIK, as long as you have your I94 number from your current border crossing and a physical address in USA (regularly used motel, RV park or whatever), you can buy the guns you need and complete the background check formalities. Lodge the guns with a friend or an FFL. Set them up as close as you can to what you practise with at home. Eventually just sell on the guns in USA or possibly export them to Canada.

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Post by lyman1903 on 6/19/2019, 11:18 am

radjag wrote:Sorry if this is slightly off topic. And obviously the cost is a major factor. But AFAIK, as long as you have your I94 number from your current border crossing and a physical address in USA (regularly used motel, RV park or whatever), you can buy the guns you need and complete the background check formalities. Lodge the guns with a friend or an FFL. Set them up as close as you can to what you practise with at home. Eventually just sell on the guns in USA or possibly export them to Canada.


I94?
 non resident alien?

a non resident alien can buy a hunting rifle, as long as you have a hunting license, but I am not sure a temp border crossing paperwork will work for that, 

I have done one or 2 non resident alien sales over the years, 
each had a card (I think it is red vs green) and a USA address,  (and US drivers license) not any temp paperwork

green card (permanent resident alien) holders can buy whatever they want
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Post by Slartybartfast on 6/19/2019, 12:08 pm

Radjag,

Filling in and getting approval for an ATF 6NIA was pretty painless. Just takes time for them to process.
The only issue is that ammunition has to be declared by manufacturer, calibre, type, and qty. So have to choose wisely so that it might be in stock to buy before travelling or keep enough on hand for a years worth of events.
Worst case can always buy ammo once stateside. Just illegal to export it.
Transport to the border of any type of firearm is straight forward and the 6NIA is simple. So, there would be no reason or need to keep firearms in the US.
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Post by radjag on 6/19/2019, 1:19 pm

OK. The ATF form route sounds good.

To Lyman1903. I can only speak for rural Oregon. If a non-resident alien has an Oregon Drivers License then the background check can usually be done by the FFL online just like a resident (but I94 number is needed for the form).
If no local DL, then, yes, need a Hunting License and evidence of a residential address (usually a vehicle title - but any "official" document mailed to that address is OK). AFAIK, the Hunting License is a State Police "peculiarity". A friendly officer at my local ODFW enquired all the way up the food chain and assurred me that there is no legal requirement for a hunting license (I do not hunt). The staff at ODFW are always bemused by someone buying a license, but no tags.
The cost of a hunting license is a small price to pay in order to be fully compliant with all local requirements.


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