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Post by KB2MBC on 7/11/2019, 12:22 pm

So, I looked up my .22 scores and saw I was unclassified. Strange, I’ve been classified a Marksman for 10 years now, how could they (NRA) screw that up.
Later I was informed the Marksman team that I am captain of is now a Sharpshooter team. Hmm, I don’t like where this is going.
Turns out that since I am shooting metallic, I have to be reclassified. So for the time being, I am an Unclassified Master and that pushed my team into the Sharpshooter class.
I’ve been shooting irons all my life, I do not own a dot, Seems like not only I am being penalized but my whole team is going to pay the price. 
This kinda sucks.

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Post by BE Mike on 7/11/2019, 3:41 pm

Have you been competing in NRA Approved or Registered matches? If you haven't competed in a few years, you lose your classification. That's why on here my NRA Classification is None. I am a has been Master.
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Post by KB2MBC on 7/11/2019, 5:41 pm

Oh yes, I’ve been shooting. The issue is that the match directors have not been reporting that I shoot metallic class.

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Post by Ed Hall on 7/11/2019, 10:15 pm

I was wondering how you turned to Unclassified and was going to ask next time we spoke.

I guess 19.6 doesn't come into play because, for the Nationals, they won't accept Assigned classifications or temporary score books.

NRA in their continuous effort to make things harder!

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Post by john bickar on 7/12/2019, 1:21 am

Looking at the results from Perry online from afar, there are many shooters whom I know personally, and even more whose names that I recognize, who are listed as "Unclassified". The common thread seems to be that these shooters are entered in the "Metallic" division.

I'll confess that as a Match Director, I have not submitted shooters' scores in the "Metallic" division/category, ever. I'll take the blame for that for any shooters that have shot "Metallic" in my matches. My apologies.

There are a number of reasons why so many "Metallic" shooters are listed as "Unclassified". Enough to fill a book.

I'm glad to see that the NRA finally is recognizing this division/category at Camp Perry. It's unfortunate that all of you are lumped together as Unclassified Masters.

I'll leave it at that.
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Post by KB2MBC on 7/12/2019, 6:47 am

I’m wondering if this is the NRA’s “scorched earth” policy for the last year at Camp Perry. They’re doing other stuff thats adding to the frustration. I am on Range 1 and they do not have cover behind the assembly line but 3 & 4 do, We’re baking in the sun...

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Post by james r chapman on 7/12/2019, 7:38 am

KB2MBC wrote:I’m wondering if this is the NRA’s “scorched earth” policy for the last year at Camp Perry. They’re doing other stuff thats adding to the frustration. I am on Range 1 and they do not have cover behind the assembly line but 3 & 4 do, We’re baking in the sun...
Really?!!
They moved 1 back 50 yds towards the parking lot. There are shade trees at the parking lot. It’s 50 yds to the ready line from the parking lot. The shade trees are about where the canopies on 4 would be.

All the facts please!!!
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Post by J.Ack on 7/12/2019, 9:24 am

19.6 is specifically mentioned in the match program, but when I brought that fact up to the stat office they told me that because it is a different division, I couldn’t use my classification, which doesn’t make sense to me. I got the same answer from the referee I spoke with. There are a lot of shooters in the same boat when it comes to metallic.

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Post by KB2MBC on 7/12/2019, 10:22 am

...

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Post by CR10X on 7/12/2019, 12:26 pm

Sounds like they are following the ruled correctly. Competitors should be sure to check their classifications and classifications cards. Remember if a shooter fired in more than one division in a tournament, all the scores should be entered under the highest division (open).

And it appears it's the CMP that puts up the facilities at Camp Perry, not the NRA. All the range facility staff are wearing CMP shirts anyway.

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Post by james r chapman on 7/12/2019, 12:31 pm

CMP is preparing for rifle. NRA still running pistol phase, although many may be crossovers
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Post by CR10X on 7/12/2019, 12:35 pm

NRA is calling the line and the match, range facilities put up and maintained by CMP staff according to the shirts.

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Post by CFPlinker on 7/12/2019, 8:56 pm

Since you were classified as Marksman in the past but are now Unclassified, is it possible that the Match Director(s) have not sent in any of your scores for the last 3 years? My thinking is that if the scores had been sent in as Open you would still be a Marksman. [This happened to me several years ago when we had a new person take charge of running our club winter league and he did not send the scores in to the NRA. Now it is also possible that he did not get the league approved. I don't know this and have no way of checking into the details.]

Since it is possible to have both Open and Metallic classifications (3.2c) you will need to fire at least 360 rounds in Metallic and have them sent in to the NRA as such (by the Match Director) in order to receive a Metallic classification.

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Post by james r chapman on 7/12/2019, 10:20 pm

I don’t believe match directors were instructed to decide the classes. They could run just an open match
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Post by Ed Hall on 7/13/2019, 10:43 am

Personally, sitting at home and reading the Rules and the Program, I think the NRA has fallen down in their handling of this.

From the Program:
NRA wrote:All competitors who do not hold an NRA Official Classification, in
the type of competition being fired or an Assigned Classification
according to NRA Pistol Rules 19.6, 19.16, 19.17 and 19.21, will be
placed in the Master class. NRA Pistol Rule 19.14 may NOT be used
but NRA Pistol Rule 19.6 may be used.
From the rule book:
NRA wrote:19.6 Assigned Classification - A competitor who has an
earned classification (a classification obtained through a Score
Record Book or an Official NRA Classification Card) for one type
of competition in the grouping listed below will be assigned this
same classification in any other type in which the competitor is not
classified in the same group:

(a) Outdoor Pistol
(b) Indoor Pistol
(c) Police Combat
(d) Action Pistol
(e) International Pistol (Free, Air, Center, Rapid Fire or Stan-
dard)

If a competitor has a classification in more than one type in the
list, the higher classification shall be used. In the second tourna-
ment in the new type, the Score Record Book is used rather than
the assigned classification.
Since the Program states that "Rule 19.6 may be used" and the Metallic "Division" is within the Outdoor Pistol group at this event, competitors should be classified as per an already existing classification.  Why would a classification for International Rapid Fire be allowed, but not something within the same group?

To address the local matches, we do not offer any awards for anything other than Open, due to attendance.  We therefore do not inquire about them, either.  We'll have to address this issue.

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Post by james r chapman on 7/13/2019, 4:11 pm

Bingo!
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Post by John Dervis Today at 6:58 pm

I was reading this thread again and it was bringing back my memories of last weeks discussions with fellow shooters.  I decided to go check the NRA results and it looks like they have done some things to fix this.  I haven't gotten too far but in the aggregate at least they have metallic shooters all listed separately.  Most are still Classifed as MU but there are listings in each class. I'm not sure how they figured out those competitors and placed them appropriately but maybe they are still working on it.  Now my quandary is whether I am prouder of being 12th Master or 5th Expert.  I guess if they fix it I won't have a choice but it's fun to ponder.

John

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Post by brassmaster Today at 8:12 pm

james r chapman wrote:I don’t believe match directors were instructed to decide the classes. They could run just an open match
Echoing Jim's comment. At no time has NRA provided instructions, either written, oral, email or in any form of communication that our submitted match reports/scores were to identify competitors as competing with metallic sights vs. optics in our approved or registered matches. However, they did not hesitate to  repeatedly inform us that we were to begin submitting $5 to NRA for each DR competitor or else DR scores would not be entered.
A little history, on my first trips to Camp Perry several decades ago, competitors were required to identify if they would be competing with metallic or optic sights. This era was just the beginning of a movement to using optics and the Burris Bullseye Scope and Aimpoint had just ventured into this market. The majority of competitors used metallic sights and a lot of .45 wheel guns and Model 52s were common on the firing lines Shooters were segregated into two separate classes based on their sights. Now the NRA has come full circle.
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