Camp Atterberry pistol range

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Post by xman on 8/1/2019, 11:40 pm

After reading and looking at the photos from Perry, I noticed that the 50yd line and the 25yd line were separate.
This meant collecting up your gear and future targets and hustling  over to the next stage.

I am wondering if Camp Atterberry will be setup the same. Anyone have a clue?

I can understand the reasoning in the Perry set up..It allows shooters to fire during different conditions, etc.
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Post by dronning on 8/2/2019, 8:12 am

From a Shooting Sports USA article:
"State-of-the-art facility is an understatement. For example, the pistol range will feature a mind-boggling 300 individual points of fire, all of them covered. Even better, shooters won’t have to change position while they are shooting. "
Link to Article

- Dave
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Post by james r chapman on 8/2/2019, 9:55 am

*yawn*

Waiting for pics of the finished ranges
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Post by chopper on 8/2/2019, 11:50 am

That article really doesn't say much about the National Pistol Championships, mostly mentions the rifle matches. Do you have any real up to date info or pictures of the new pistol ranges and how they're coming along. That would cure a lot of suspicions, including mine about getting the new range ready in time for the Nationals. I for one would like to see covered firing lines with 2 separate long and short lines. That improvement alone would make shooting more enjoyable and probably improve the efficiency of running the competition. 
 What would really be cool is if Cardinal and Canton could schedual matches before and after the National. What a summer would that be, take 2 weeks vacation and shoot 3 big matches.
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Post by jmdavis on 8/2/2019, 12:09 pm

According to the information at the NRA competitors meeting at Perry. The preliminary Engineering plans were not due until August 1st. Final plans will be due October 1 and construction was set to begin in November. In other words there are no pictures, there is no construction yet. 

When asked about the back up plan if things weren't ready, we were told "There isn't one."
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Post by dronning on 8/2/2019, 12:56 pm

chopper wrote:I for one would like to see covered firing lines with 2 separate long and short lines. That improvement alone would make shooting more enjoyable and probably improve the efficiency of running the competition.
Stan
The quote "Even better, shooters won’t have to change position while they are shooting".  I take that to mean 1 bench and 50 & 25 yd lines like everyone but Perry uses. 

There is more than enough time to get it done, the question is can they?
- Dave
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Post by chopper on 8/2/2019, 12:58 pm

Yes Dave that's the arrangement I'm refering to. Boy, isn't that a dandy. I wonder if the NRA burned their bridges behind them by leaving Perry.

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Post by Wobbley on 8/2/2019, 2:21 pm

Why not have two target lines? Seems more logical rather than having one target line and two firing lines.
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Post by Al on 8/2/2019, 3:21 pm

james r chapman wrote:*yawn*

Waiting for pics of the finished ranges
+1.
While I wish them the best of luck completing the project. I have slight reservations.

May not have been the best idea to burn aforementioned bridges so quickly.

Either way...It's still not Perry!
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Post by chopper on 8/2/2019, 9:29 pm

Yes Wobbley, that's what I meant. Having 1 shooting line and not having to move your pistol box and equipment. This might require more RSOs to inspect the line, but could move the match faster.

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Camp Atterberry pistol range Empty 300 positions that is one long line....

Post by xman on 8/3/2019, 12:12 am

300 x 40inches is 1000 feet (40 inches is I think what to rules say per position)

add in line breaks every of 36 inches every 10 positions for shooters to score equals another 90 feet to the line.

Ads in qualified ROs every 25 positions, thats 12 ROs

My math might be incorrect but thats a lot of structures to build, turning system to develop and staff to train.

I am all for not having the shooters move, but practically outweights ideals.
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Post by orpheoet on 8/12/2019, 7:13 am

They should talk to whoever designed Cardinal. Shot there yesterday and didnt even have to move my spotting scope. Just adjust focus. Phenomenal range.
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Post by dronning on 8/12/2019, 8:36 am

xman wrote:300 x 40inches is 1000 feet (40 inches is I think what to rules say per position)

add in line breaks every of 36 inches every 10 positions for shooters to score equals another 90 feet to the line.

Ads in qualified ROs every 25 positions, thats 12 ROs

My math might be incorrect but thats a lot of structures to build, turning system to develop and staff to train.

I am all for not having the shooters move, but practically outweights ideals. Having only 1 firing line per firing point doesn't change RO or firing point requirements.
They need at least 200 firing points to run any match with more than 400* shooters (600 max) because that would be 3 relays a day plus team matches.  If you add a practice range there is at least 50 more firing points needed and 100 would be better.  So 300 isn't really excessive.

Cardinal's plans are for 300 firing positions too.
- Dave

* Time will tell if they get more than 400 participants.


Last edited by dronning on 8/12/2019, 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Camp Atterberry pistol range Empty Project Plan Dates for Camp Atterbury Pistol Range for 2020 NRA Natl Pistol Champs)

Post by ted.carter.568 on 8/12/2019, 10:02 am

I apologize for not posting sooner.

Below is the schedule of events (milestones) for the construction of the Camp Atterbury Precision Pistol shooting range/complex.  The dates were taken from the NRA Director of Competitions - Cole McCulloch's briefing to the competitors during the Competitor's Meeting at Camp Perry last month.

Project Plan Dates (Dates are approximate)

  • Preliminary engineering plans completed – Aug 1

  • Final engineering plans – Oct 1

  • Construction begins – Nov 4

  • Testing – May 1

  • Construction ends – May 15

  • NRA arrives in Camp Atterbury – June 2020

  • NRA Precision Pistol National begin July 1, 2020



I have requested that the NRA provide a copy of the entire brief to the Bullseye community, via whatever best way is needed to disseminate and update the range progress (SSUSA, email, Competitions website, Competitions FB page, etc).

I have asked the Dir of Competitions for a status of the first milestone, the Preliminary engineering plans that were due on or about 1 Aug.  I'll pass any update I receive.

Finally, there are many more considerations "moving parts" that must go into the NRA's prep for Camp Atterbury and the 2020 National Pistol Champs.  I have conveyed a lot of them to the NRA, as I have received some very good points from you all..and will continue to do so.

I will be requesting an agenda item for the Pistol Committee to consider and vote on at their upcoming meeting (date to be determined), that directs (nicely requests) the Dir of Competitions to create a place on the Competitions website to post current and updated information for the 2020 National Pistol Champs (Smallbore and High Power also) and provide other essential information (housing options, dining options, what suitable ice cream place will replace Andy's, links to family friendly things to do etc.)  I know many of you who are considering attending the 2020 Natl Pistol Champs have valid concerns.

More to follow.

Ted

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Post by Multiracer on 8/12/2019, 10:48 am

Are the firing points for pistol actually facing South at Attebury ?

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Post by SteveT on 8/12/2019, 12:54 pm

Thank you Ted! It's good to get information from a reliable source.
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Post by jmdavis on 8/12/2019, 1:02 pm

Multiracer wrote:Are the firing points for pistol actually facing South at Attebury ?

Yes. 

The rifle ranges do as well. The last year at Perry (2016), NRA Highpower Rifle (not including midrange or long range) had 297 competitors for the 2400 arg championship (Match 400). The first year at Atterbury (2017) they had 168. The second year at Atterbury they had 126. This year they had 87 for the championship. Those numbers represent a 71% drop in participation. 

If you examine the attendence since the move from Perry for Small bore it is even more startling. 

When Hunter's Pistol Nationals Attendence dropped below 50 on the west coast (it was well above that level for the rotating years of Nationals on the East Coast), the championships were cancelled. This year the Black Powder Cartridge Target rifle numbers dropped on the west coast and it has been cancelled as well.
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Post by adminbot1911 on 8/12/2019, 1:22 pm

jmdavis wrote:
Multiracer wrote:Are the firing points for pistol actually facing South at Attebury ?

Yes. 

The rifle ranges do as well. The last year at Perry (2016), NRA Highpower Rifle (not including midrange or long range) had 297 competitors for the 2400 arg championship (Match 400). The first year at Atterbury (2017) they had 168. The second year at Atterbury they had 126. This year they had 87 for the championship. Those numbers represent a 71% drop in participation. 

If you examine the attendence since the move from Perry for Small bore it is even more startling. 

When Hunter's Pistol Nationals Attendence dropped below 50 on the west coast (it was well above that level for the rotating years of Nationals on the East Coast), the championships were cancelled. This year the Black Powder Cartridge Target rifle numbers dropped on the west coast and it has been cancelled as well.
Does anyone else find this concerning for the future of our sport?
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Post by jmdavis on 8/12/2019, 1:29 pm

adminbot1911 wrote:
jmdavis wrote:
Multiracer wrote:Are the firing points for pistol actually facing South at Attebury ?

Yes. 

The rifle ranges do as well. The last year at Perry (2016), NRA Highpower Rifle (not including midrange or long range) had 297 competitors for the 2400 arg championship (Match 400). The first year at Atterbury (2017) they had 168. The second year at Atterbury they had 126. This year they had 87 for the championship. Those numbers represent a 71% drop in participation. 

If you examine the attendence since the move from Perry for Small bore it is even more startling. 

When Hunter's Pistol Nationals Attendence dropped below 50 on the west coast (it was well above that level for the rotating years of Nationals on the East Coast), the championships were cancelled. This year the Black Powder Cartridge Target rifle numbers dropped on the west coast and it has been cancelled as well.
Does anyone else find this concerning for the future of our sport?


The BPTR numbers were never that high. This year's BPCR Silhouette number in Raton was right at 50.
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Post by Dcforman on 8/12/2019, 5:42 pm

Thanks for the update Ted. Could you speak to the decision to hold matches on July 4th? I can almost guarantee that makes Nationals next year a no-go for me. That's a family/neighborhood day. Is there any chance it can/will be rescheduled? I can't imagine I'm the only one who's thinking this.

Thanks again! Though I have my reservations, I'm willing to give Atterbury the benefit of the doubt. I hope it is spectacular.

Dave

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Post by ted.carter.568 on 8/12/2019, 9:57 pm

Dcforman wrote:Thanks for the update Ted. Could you speak to the decision to hold matches on July 4th? I can almost guarantee that makes Nationals next year a no-go for me. That's a family/neighborhood day. Is there any chance it can/will be rescheduled? I can't imagine I'm the only one who's thinking this.

Thanks again! Though I have my reservations, I'm willing to give Atterbury the benefit of the doubt. I hope it is spectacular.

Dave

NRA did not want to conflict with CMP pistol matches for 2020.  NRA wanted to allow a day's travel for competitors to get from NRA Natl Champs at Camp Atterbury to CMP matches at Camp Perry.  Given those two issues, only viable time for the Natl Pistol Champs for 2020, according to NRA Dir of Competitions was to hold over July 4th.  I can't imagine that NRA would resked, and push for a later time...unless there were other factors involved. 

NRA says they are working with local community and base who want to welcome shooters and families for a nice July 4th celebration.

I know of others expressing the same concerns about July 4th.  I also know, I've spent more that a couple of July 4th's at Canton's pistol range, watching perfectly safe and professional Bullseye competitors, launching some industrial strength fireworks...or driving to Canton on the evening of July 4th.

Hopefully the 2020 sked will not be too distracting.  Nothing has been finalized for beyond 2020.

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Post by Dcforman on 8/13/2019, 5:52 am

Thanks Ted, for taking the time to respond! I appreciate it!

Dave

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Post by mprince on 8/13/2019, 6:56 am

My situation is kind of unique. The decision to start July 1 almost guarantees that I WILL get to attend the NRA Matches. As a National Guardsman, we almost never have drill the weekend before or the weekend after July 4th. So this time frame is ideal for me, it even gives me a greater chance of attending both NRA and CMP. This year I was at Cardinal, Canton and then Camp Perry from the 7th until August 5th, but this was a unique year as I did not have a July drill at all. The previous year, I fired my last shot on the 45 Team match Friday afternoon, handed my pistol to a teammate, signed my scorecard and then went to the parking lot and drove 9 hours home so I could drill the next morning. Missed all CMP events.

I, for one, applaud the NRA and CMP for working together to deconflict their schedules.

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Post by John Dervis on 8/13/2019, 6:25 pm

Although it is unlikely NRA will change for 2020, was there any discussion on moving the NRA Pistol Championship to the week AFTER Perry.  I suppose in future years it might not matter because of how the holiday falls but it still seems like there are too many venues trying to compete for the weeks leading up to Perry.  Canton, Cardinal, and CMP itself all want to hold Bullseye matches during that time frame.  I would think shooting NRA starting the Tuesday after Perry might be a good solution.  I don't know anything about the SB and HP schedule but maybe dates could be traded with one of those so as not to have that discipline go through the same headache we are having.

Just a thought.

John

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Post by SteveT on 8/13/2019, 7:35 pm

John Dervis wrote:Although it is unlikely NRA will change for 2020, was there any discussion on moving the NRA Pistol Championship to the week AFTER Perry.  I suppose in future years it might not matter because of how the holiday falls but it still seems like there are too many venues trying to compete for the weeks leading up to Perry.  Canton, Cardinal, and CMP itself all want to hold Bullseye matches during that time frame.  I would think shooting NRA starting the Tuesday after Perry might be a good solution.  I don't know anything about the SB and HP schedule but maybe dates could be traded with one of those so as not to have that discipline go through the same headache we are having.

Just a thought.

John
+1  Camp Atterberry pistol range 2935285009


Or move it to the end of Rifle in August or September. I've always thought the national championships should be at the end of the season, not near the middle.
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