Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

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Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Empty Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

Post by mikemyers on 8/10/2019, 6:21 pm

I currently have two wad guns, a Salyer Springfield Armory 1911 with a two piece extended length guide rod (front part of guide rod is removed with an Allen wrench from the front of the gun), and my Salyer Caspian, that has a standard guide rod.  I use  the Nelson conversion which is now mounted on the Caspian frame.

What is the best option to shoot both 22 and 45.  I can either take both guns to the range, and use them as-is but one of the benefits of the Nelson is to allow a shooter to use the same trigger/gun/spring/grip for both 22 and 45.  If so, I think I should convert my Caspian to use a two-piece full length guide rod.   How do you guys do it?  If converting the guide rod is a good option, any recommendations of what to buy, where to buy it?

This way the slide assembly can quickly be switched between 22 and 45.

Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Img_3810
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Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Empty Re: Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

Post by Oleg G on 8/10/2019, 6:56 pm

Mike, this is very easy. You use the same recoil spring you have with your GI guide rod. The two-piece guide rod comes with it own recoil spring plug - just like what you now have. I bought the unit below and am very happy with it. My use case is exactly what you describe - easily swap the .45 and .22 uppers on the same frame.

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/recoil-parts/recoil-spring-guide-rods/1911-guide-rod-system-prod6137.aspx

Regards,
Oleg.
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Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Empty Re: Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

Post by mikemyers on 8/10/2019, 7:18 pm

Thanks - tungsten or stainless steel?   Is one preferable to the other?
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Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Empty Re: Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

Post by DA/SA on 8/10/2019, 7:21 pm

I use a one piece full length. 

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Full-Length-Guide-Rod-Full-Size/productinfo/25G/

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Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Empty Re: Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

Post by David R on 8/10/2019, 7:34 pm

Tungston adds weight.
I use the wilsons posted above. It cant come apart and needs no tools. You will need a bushing wrench to disassemble and the plug may go flying a couple times, so aim it in a safe direction.

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Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Empty Re: Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

Post by james r chapman on 8/10/2019, 7:58 pm

just get the Wilson. You don’t need to remove the barrel unless your shooting AMU quantity of shells.
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Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Empty Re: Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

Post by Jon Eulette on 8/10/2019, 8:15 pm

mikemyers wrote:Thanks - tungsten or stainless steel?   Is one preferable to the other?

Tungsten will make it too heavy for you Mike.
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Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Empty Re: Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

Post by mikemyers on 8/10/2019, 8:22 pm

Thanks, Jon - tungsten is out.

With the Wilson that you guys are recommending, can the slide be removed as "an assembly", the way I now remove the slide assembly on my Springfield?  This makes it easier to switch back and forth between 22 and 45 if being done at the range, where I don't want to take all the slide components apart.
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Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Empty Re: Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

Post by lablover on 8/10/2019, 8:26 pm

mikemyers wrote:Thanks, Jon - tungsten is out.

With the Wilson that you guys are recommending, can the slide be removed as "an assembly", the way I now remove the slide assembly on my Springfield?  This makes it easier to switch back and forth between 22 and 45 if being done at the range, where I don't want to take all the slide components apart.
Yes sir!
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Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Empty Re: Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

Post by james r chapman on 8/10/2019, 8:27 pm

yes. Neutral
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Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Empty Re: Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45

Post by mikemyers on 8/10/2019, 8:36 pm

Thanks everyone; it's in my shopping cart.
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Post by lablover on 8/10/2019, 8:48 pm

mikemyers wrote:Thanks everyone; it's in my shopping cart.
It might require a little fitting otherwise it could beat the daylights out of your lower lugs
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Post by james r chapman on 8/10/2019, 8:57 pm

lablover wrote:
mikemyers wrote:Thanks everyone; it's in my shopping cart.
It might require a little fitting otherwise it could beat the daylights out of your lower lugs
It shouldn't Joe. it slides inside the recoil spring, it's never under compression.
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Post by David R on 8/10/2019, 9:17 pm

The guide rod sits in the frame ahead of the link and lugs. Just hold it in the frame with the slide off.

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Post by lablover on 8/10/2019, 9:44 pm

Ok stupid question then.  If it sits in the frame...when you remove the slide why is the one piece guide rod sitting against the lower barrel lugs?  All I know is I had a Wilson on3 piece and it had some sharp edges on the back flat part and it caused a little burr on my bottom lugs by the link
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Post by james r chapman on 8/10/2019, 10:39 pm

Yes, I forgot. It is under the same tension as your normal gi spring guide would have.
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Post by Jon Eulette on 8/10/2019, 10:53 pm

lablover wrote:Ok stupid question then.  If it sits in the frame...when you remove the slide why is the one piece guide rod sitting against the lower barrel lugs?  All I know is I had a Wilson on3 piece and it had some sharp edges on the back flat part and it caused a little burr on my bottom lugs by the link

It's hitting/touching bottom barrel lugs because the frame is not holding it in place as when assembled. As stated earlier, the guide rod is held in place by the frame when assembled.
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Post by mikemyers on 8/11/2019, 10:27 am

lablover wrote:.......when you remove the slide why is the one piece guide rod sitting against the lower barrel lugs?  All I know is I had a Wilson on3 piece and it had some sharp edges on the back flat part and it caused a little burr on my bottom lugs by the link

Maybe this is the explanation:

That is required when a match barrel is installed to prevent it from interfering with barrel lock-up.  
Companies that know something about precision guns make this cut at the factory. 
You can do it with a file. You just need to provide clearance. The angle is not important."

Unless I can buy an appropriate guide rod already machined like this, I guess I need to find a way to support the part in a way that allows me to make this modification with a file.
Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Img_1711
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Post by james r chapman on 8/11/2019, 11:22 am

Mike, if you have too, just use a surface grinder like Bubba does.
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Post by mikemyers on 8/11/2019, 11:35 am

Thanks for the idea, but I don't have a surface grinder.  I have a bench grinder with a large grinding wheel on it, but I suspect I'll be better off with a file.   .....who is "Bubba"?   

This photo makes me think it wouldn't be that difficult to file, but I'd need to file "side to side", not "up and down" to stay clear of the parts I don't want to touch.  On the other hand, if I file vertically, I just need to make sure the file doesn't touch the "feet".

 I wonder what Jon will say about this...
Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Img_8010


Last edited by mikemyers on 8/11/2019, 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by lablover on 8/11/2019, 12:28 pm

Thanks mike. Knew I didn’t imagine that!
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Post by james r chapman on 8/11/2019, 12:44 pm

Mike, you really ought to tell EGW and Wilson about it!
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Post by mikemyers on 8/11/2019, 1:03 pm

Well, I don't need to tell Les Baer - he does the same thing Dave Salyer does, but Les does it from left to right....
I wiped it down with a piece of paper towel for the photo - need to clean the whole gun and re-assemble.

(I also started to read this page, buI I got completely lost....
http://how-i-did-it.org/1911-project/the_kart_of_barrel_fitting.html. 
Amazing how much work this is!  Maybe Jon can elaborate.)

Using one 1911 wad gun for both 22 and 45 Img_2710
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Post by mikemyers on 8/11/2019, 1:30 pm

Gee, you can find anything on the internet.  Some of you guys tell me I "think too much".  I guess you're right.
Old discussion:  https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/1911-guide-rod-modification.325/

I also found a good explanation on page 2:


"The beveling of the back of the guide rod serves several very good purposes. That purpose in the longer guns is to keep the rear of the guide rod from binding on the link and barrel legs during recoil. On the shorter guns it is to help prevent the link from binding on the guide rod nearly exclusively due to the shape of most commander and officer length barrel legs being shorter on the front (read:commander style cut).

When the guide rod binds against the link or barrel legs in the case of a GI rod it can cause the rod to pivot up and bind the spring against the barrel and or plug. Or it can cause it to pivot down and bind against the inside dustcover of the frame. Either way it slows and interrupts function of the gun. In the case of a FLGR what it does is binds the rod up or down in the plug at the end and again, causes the gun to be slow and interrupted. Also, by binding against the link or the legs it causes interruption in feeding as well as damage to the rod, link and barrel. However, by cutting the rear of the rod with the proper concave bevel, these problems are not a concern as the rod now sits as straight as possible in the frame recess during recoil, thus allowing smooth function of the slide forward and back without interruption.

In the overall scheme what it does is allows smoother feeding and better reliability because now you have eliminated one major area of binding as the pistol functions. And as smiths like Marvel, Keefer and myself have proven over time, when you increase the reliability of the gun by fixing minor things, you increase the longevity and accuracy of the gun as well. Now, I personally have only modified a couple hundred guide rods like this. Hoag, my mentor Bob, and his deceased friend John Nowlin, have/had been doing them for about 20-30 years (read: thousands) with no ill effects or breakage, and are accredited with being the ones who studied it and came up with the idea to originally do the modification.

Somewhere along the line STI started doing it to their rods, although not as fully as it should have been done and it takes some cleaning up on them. Now I understand a number of other makers, including Kimber, are attempting to do the mod as well, pretty typical of the industry regarding a great many things. The one being sold by NH is actually inspired by one of the original inventors of this, none other than Bob Marvel himself, who as some of you know has been working with them for some time on the new .22 conversion and several other projects.

For those of you that want to, you can do this mod yourself on your existing guide rod. I will do my best to get some pics of one properly done up here this week so you can see it and play with it on your own. It is a great mod and I wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work or was detrimental to the gun in some fashion."
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Post by David R on 8/11/2019, 5:13 pm

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