DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:51 am


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/825886852

I think this pistol is a fraudulent Kit Gun. The frame is missing the proof marks on the trigger guard. So I'm suspicious of the genuineness of the receiver. The slide also overhangs the rear of the receiver and the barrel hood is excessively short so that a gap is visible at the barrel upper lugs and slide lugs. The bluing of the thumb safety and slide stop also have a reddish tinge that leads me to believe they are not genuine Colt parts. There is also no wear on the sides of the grip safety.

I own several kit guns and do not consider myself to be an expert on collecting Colt 1911's, but I am cautious about pistols that should've been built by quality gunsmith. This pistol is lacking and I would hate to see someone buy a rare fake pistol.
Jon



Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

Posts : 2623
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by cdrt on Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:19 pm

Odd serial number, as well.  That bluing is definitely off color.
cdrt
cdrt

Posts : 619
Join date : 2016-04-12
Location : Amarillo, Texas

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by javaduke on Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:27 pm

I think what Jon really meant to say is "Do not buy this kit gun because I want to buy it for myself" Smile))
J/k, thanks for the tip, Jon! I was actually looking at this and some other kits and was wondering what's up with this bluing.

javaduke

Posts : 330
Join date : 2012-07-04

https://bullseyepistolblog.net/

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by dronning on Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:06 pm

Not sure but the odd color bluing might be because of the steel the slide was made from.  I had an older over/under reblued and was warned when I brought it in that because of the steel used it would come out with a reddish tint to it.  It looks just like that Colt's slide color. 
- Dave
dronning
dronning

Posts : 2382
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 66
Location : Lakeville, MN

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by Wobbley on Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:13 pm

If the bath is contaminated from a previous load it can turn “funky”...so IMO this gun has been refinished at some point. It may be as described, but it’s been refinished.
Wobbley
Wobbley

Posts : 2294
Join date : 2015-02-13

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by lyman1903 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:50 pm

Wobbley wrote:If the bath is contaminated from a previous load it can turn “funky”...so IMO  this gun has been refinished at some point.  It may be as described, but it’s been refinished.


definately has been refinished, 

slide stop, slide and safety, 

temps off in the tank (cannot remember if too hot or not hot enough ) can make the parts come out a Plum color,


looking at his other auctions, some of the color may be from his lighting and background, (I still think that one has been redone)


several of the firearms he has listed show that funky purply plum color,  but only certain pics,  others show normal blue color,
lyman1903
lyman1903

Posts : 279
Join date : 2017-12-26
Location : Beach Va, not Va Beach

http://www.chesterfieldarmament.com

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by fc60 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:17 pm

Greetings,

I bid on it anyway.

Cheers,

Dave
fc60
fc60

Posts : 692
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:19 pm

My biggest concerns were the frame because it is lacking the proof marks on each side of the trigger guard. And the barrel headspace is probably horrendous because you can see we Upper barrel locking lugs clearly and you should not be able to see them. With the availability of 80% receivers and a CNC engraving machine it would be very easy to make a fake lower. So it is apparent that the quality of the Gunsmithing performed is substandard.
Jon
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

Posts : 2623
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by 824tsv on Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:28 am

The frames of the Kit pistols did not have any proof marks because they were never proof tested. They were sold as "Kits". Unassembled pistols that needed to be fitted and assembled by someone other than Colt. I have this one in my database. It was originally shipped to The Training Officer, FT Benning Georgia December 20th, 1965. My only comment on condition is that I have seen many Colt Model O pistols in this era (Mid 60's) with plum slides. The seller is incorrect about how many Colt produced (Colt produced 1,064 in .45ACP)
824tsv
824tsv

Posts : 15
Join date : 2016-04-27
Location : Canada

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:05 am

Before I made my post about the missing proof marks I pulled one of my kit guns out of the safe and looked at it first. It has proof parks on both sides of the trigger guard. When I have more time I will pull out the others to verify if they have them as well.
Jon
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

Posts : 2623
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by javaduke on Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:34 am

Here's mine, it does have marks on the left and right side.

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Img_3910
DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Img_3911

Speaking of mine, is it possible to find out who built it? It has some tiger tooth stippling on the MSH, but front strap is smooth. And the grip safety is odd, it looks like this one:
DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER 96232_ts

javaduke

Posts : 330
Join date : 2012-07-04

https://bullseyepistolblog.net/

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by 824tsv on Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:32 pm

Those are NOT proof marks. The VP in a triangle is Colt's proof mark. The letter on the right side is the assembler and the letter on the left side is the final inspector mark.
824tsv
824tsv

Posts : 15
Join date : 2016-04-27
Location : Canada

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:46 pm

824tsv wrote:Those are NOT proof marks. The VP in a triangle is Colt's proof mark. The letter on the right side is the assembler and the letter on the left side is the final inspector mark.

Thanks
Jon
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

Posts : 2623
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by Dcforman on Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:22 pm

OK, so why would a Colt 45 Kit frame not have the assembler and inspector marks on the trigger guard? Just curious.

Dave

Dcforman

Posts : 258
Join date : 2017-11-18
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by fc60 on Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:38 pm

Greetings,

It would depend on who assembled/built the gun.

Clark, Giles, Maple, and others purchased the KIT's and did the finish work.

Some were likely done at the USAMTU and perhaps the gunsmith added his/her mark to the finished product.

Cheers,

Dave
fc60
fc60

Posts : 692
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by mprince on Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:43 pm

My team wadgun is a Colt kit gun build.  So the NGMTU got some as well.

mprince

Posts : 49
Join date : 2012-12-24

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by Jon Eulette on Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:22 am

I messaged the seller Monday requesting some additional pics. No response.
Jon
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

Posts : 2623
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by Jon Eulette on Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:04 pm

I looked at 5 different kit guns: (3) -H and (2) -B. All five have markings on the trigger guard. (2) Clark, (1) Giles, (1) Shockey and (1) Kart.

If someone from this forum purchased the pistol I would like some pics if you don't mind of a few things.

Thanks
Jon
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

Posts : 2623
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by fc60 on Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:59 pm

Greetings,

My friend has a 38 KIT Gun we think was originally built by Giles, it has the spot weld inside the slide.

Serial is 0061X-H.

Ejection port side has a "O" stamped on the trigger guard.

The opposite side has a "B" stamped on the trigger guard.

No marks on the slide to distinguish who did what.

Far from original as it has a KART barrel installed.

It did come with the Giles full length rib.

Cheers,

Dave

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Bee10
DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Oh10
fc60
fc60

Posts : 692
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by 824tsv on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:59 pm

As I posted above the "O" is the stamp of the Colt employee who assembled the Kit. The kits came complete with internal parts with the exception of sights on the slide. The "B" is the stamp of the final inspector.
824tsv
824tsv

Posts : 15
Join date : 2016-04-27
Location : Canada

Back to top Go down

DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER Empty Re: DO NOT BUY COLT 45 KIT GUN ON GUNBROKER

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum