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Post by smsnyder on Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:10 pm

I am a new member at 68. I am interested in bullseye shooting in the winter. I am from the Pittsburgh area. Is there different class for us old guys? is there a different class for using a red dot or iron sights. How far due you shoot? Any shoots in the Pittsburgh, Pa area? I just bought a new Smith and Wesson Model 41 with a top rail. I have a Vortex Venom 3 moa red dot mounted on it. Thanks

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Post by Mike38 on Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:31 pm

>Is there different class for us old guys? 


Yes, there is a Senior classification (60+) on matches that choose to separate them.


>is there a different class for using a red dot or iron sights. 


Yes, Open class for any sights, and metallic / iron sights class, again, on matches that choose to separate them.


>How far due you shoot? 

Commonly 50 feet indoors, but can be 25 yards. Outdoors is commonly 50 yard slow fire and 25 yard sustained fire, but can be both at 25 yards.

Take a look at www.bullseyepistol.com for great info.
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Post by Mike38 on Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:34 pm

Oh, and welcome to a fun yet at times frustrating sport!
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Post by joem5636 on Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:47 pm

Somerset, PA has indoor Bullseye on Sundays from January through mid-April. $5. 2pm. Excellent range.

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Post by TomH_pa on Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:17 pm

Sent you a PM about a Pittsburgh area pistol league.

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Post by smsnyder on Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:36 pm

Just ordered the Smith and Wesson 7 inch target barrel. Now I have a new complete set Model 42. 5.5 barrel with top rail with Vortex Venom red dot and 7 inch barrel iron sights. Talked to Clark Custom guns and they recommended a 8 pound recoil spring and buffer. Super nice guy. He also suggest Ely Black box ammo for competition shooting. He suggested CCI standard velocity for target shooting. Now I am covered for everything. Heck, at 68 I hope I can see the target now.

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Post by willnewton on Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:09 am

Welcome aboard!  If you are still having log in issues. Let me know.
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Post by Ray Bersch on Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:03 pm

Don't get too enthused about the Senior classification - most of the folks in that category have been shooting for years.  I started a year ago at age 74 and in my very first match the oldest shooter broke a range record, ugh.  Besides, I have not seen one match where seniors were broken out as a separate category - because most of the shooters are old.  But don't get discouraged either.  As an older guy you probably have much more time to practice the sport than the younger shooters and perhaps a bit more discretionary income to purchase good equipment and lots of ammo. (Unlike golf, good equipment makes a difference for the new guys.) You are starting off correctly with a red dot - it took me awhile to shed my purist coat and get a red dot.  Simply put, very little can be done to overcome the effect of age on the eyes - expensive prescription shooting glasses can help - or a far less expensive red dot - you have already made the choice.  Don't worry about seeing the target - just practice until you can get a hold within the black and learn trigger discipline - you'll get'er done well enough to want to give up golf! 

Oh, and do enter a match as soon as you can. Its a great experience, you will learn a lot, get all of the new-guy nervousness worked out and meet lots of people willing to help.
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Post by smsnyder on Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:14 pm

THANKS I will be shooting a Smith And Wesson 22 caliber model 41 5.5 barrel with a Vortex Venom red dot. Also just pick up a Sig P320  X5 legion in 9mm.

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Post by radjag on Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:20 am

I recently started Bullseye at 63 and can assure you that, as long as your sight and general health are reasonable, there is no need to worry about age. Red dots do make a big difference, but using a diopter or aperture on your shooting glasses made a much bigger and more positive difference for me. Now the dot has lost it's "comet tail" and I can even see iron sights good enough for local EIC matches. I'm currently using an "Eyepal" - https://www.eyepalusa.com/ - best $25 you'll ever spend on shooting equipment. There are several other options, but I strongly recommend an Eyepal for a novice (with a really good pair of safety glasses - I chose Gargolyes https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VX2TIX4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 , but there are dozens of different brands and styles out there).

As for buying guns - if you think that you really want to concentrate on Bullseye, don't make the same mistake I made - don't go buying any of the "run & gun" style handguns, they are next to useless.  You may regret the P320. Your M41 is an excellent choice, but a 1911 in 45ACP should be your next buy (everyone recommends a Springfield Armory Range Office as the best starter gun), but there are lots of used Bullseye guns on this forum - check them out.

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Post by smsnyder on Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:11 am

Why would I regret the purchase of the Sig P320 x Legion?  It is the latest technology in competition 9mm hand guns. Super nice trigger. Optic ready. Great target sights. Infused Titanium frame. Makes it feel like steel but has the flex of polymer. It is as heavy as a steel  handgun frame but the frame design  reduces recoil big time. 3 magazines. Shoots 5 shot groups the size of a quarter at 25 yards. I am not saying it is the best 9mm target gun but one of the best. The CZ Shadow 2, Sig P210 Target, Walther Q5 Match Pro are also good 9mm target guns. The military approved the Sig  P320 standard model as there sidearm of choice.  Very hard to get a military contract. I graduated from the U.S. Army  Ordnance Center and School in Aberdeen MD. Being a weapons  expert in the military  I know a lot about the design of weapons. What is a run and gun style handgun?  The 1911 45 caliber has to much recoil for competition shooting. The only thing the 1911 has going for it is the triggers are often nice. Plus 45 ammo is not cost effective compared to 9mm. But thanks for some advice you gave me. Your input is welcome. Thanks

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Post by radjag on Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:31 am

Your credentials are impeccable, and certainly you have deeper knowledge than me. But I've owned (then regretted and sold) many of what are said to be the best "non-bullseye" guns. IMHO it is a case of "horses for courses". As I am certainly discovering, none of them are perfect or even good to go straight out of the box, but dedicated bullseye guns seem to be the best tools for bullseye competition. I've never owned, or even handled a P320 and it may indeed be at or near the pinnacle of combat handgun technology, but I remain sceptical re' it's suitability as a Bullseye Centerfire gun.

On the other hand, if you want something less dedicated and more suitable and flexible for a variety of different disciplines, it might be a perfect choice. Only you can decide that.

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Post by smsnyder on Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:37 am

My thoughts are the Ruger Mark IV 22 caliber is the best designed firearm out there for the ( money) . Put a better trigger in it and better optics and you have a weapon that is a bargain . This firearm will sometimes out shoot even the high end guns with good ammo.

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Post by adminbot1911 on Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:19 pm

The other questions have been pretty much answered. I drive up to Boyertown and Harrisburg for the matches they have there fairly routinely... from Virginia. You're much closer so I'd expect you to make it there more frequently for their 2700 point days and excellence in competition matches.

http://www.njpistol.com has a calendar which you can check out match dates and such. Can register on the web page or email the match director. I'd like to see how the P320 goes for you, the Marine team had to tune theirs a bit to get acceptable precision performance.


Last edited by adminbot1911 on Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:15 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
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Post by 45ACP223 on Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:45 pm

A lot depends on what type of Bullseye shooting you plan to do.  9mm or 32 cal. may be ok for the centerfire leg or leagues where you only shoot 22 and CF (our league shoots a national match (sf, tf, rf) for each, but you can only shoot 22 if you prefer.  If you plan on competition (shooting NRA 2700 matches), the 45 cal. is required for the last leg of the match (22, CF, 45).  If you shoot the 1911 in competition, you have to reload or have really deep pockets. That said, the reloaded rounds are power puff load that have less recoil than a typical 9mm round.  Another benefit of the 45 is the larger hole it cuts.  It may get you scored in the next higher ring.  In the long run, the cost of the gun is insignificant, you will spend 10x that in ammo fired during practice, leagues, and competitions.


Last edited by 45ACP223 on Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by smsnyder on Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:58 am

Can you compete in bullseye with a 22 and or a 9mm semi pistol? Due you need a 45 to compete. I am 68 so I just want to due a little shooting indoors in this winter. Due you need a safety on a bulleyes pistol? I have a sig P320x legion competition pistol with a leupold  red dot.  I have a Smith Model 41 with a 5.5 barrel and Vortex Venom red dot. Just bought a Kimber Stainless Target II 5 inch 45 with iron target sights.  I should be covered for bullseye shoots. What you think guys?

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Post by WillH on Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:22 pm

I think you're covered for any bullseye matches.  Depending on your location / venue the matches would consist of some combination of 22, center-fire, and 45 categories.  My local league is 22 only in summer and 22 and center-fire in fall / winter.  I'd check with them for how the events are structured. For center-fire stage you can shoot either your 9mm or 45.  But, for 45 stages (which are part of 2700) you'd need to shoot the 45 - should you choose to enter that portion but it isn't mandatory to shoot all 3.

i shot a friend's Sig P320 recently.  Although it isn't typically considered a bullseye gun, I was impressed with its accuracy and handling.  It also had a vortex venom like yours and was pretty awesome.  So, shoot what you like and have fun.  Welcome to the sport!

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Post by John Dervis on Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:35 pm

smsnyder wrote:Can you compete in bullseye with a 22 and or a 9mm semi pistol? Due you need a 45 to compete. I am 68 so I just want to due a little shooting indoors in this winter. Due you need a safety on a bulleyes pistol? I have a sig P320x legion competition pistol with a leupold  red dot.  I have a Smith Model 41 with a 5.5 barrel and Vortex Venom red dot. Just bought a Kimber Stainless Target II 5 inch 45 with iron target sights.  I should be covered for bullseye shoots. What you think guys?

I was typing this response but before I could post it, someone beat me to it. Are responses are similar so hopefully you'll get something out of both of them.


You can use the guns you have in just about any bullseye league or tournament up to an 1800. (An 1800 is the first 2/3s of a full 2700 which is all three guns.)  In fact you can now shoot .22 only throughout an entire 2700 if you wanted to but you just aren't eligible for the full tournament awards.  I don't know about leagues in your area but around here there are many that are only 30 rounds (called a national match course or NMC) which is a good way to get started.
If you desire to compete in a full 2700 (for awards that is) then yes, you will need a .45 for at least the last 1/3.  Many (probably most people) will shoot the 45 for both the center fire and 45 portions because it is simpler to maintain, load for, and learn two guns vs three but you could use the three guns you have if you wanted to.  

In regards to a safety the answer is no your gun doesn't NEED a safety but any safety (or safeties) your gun came with must be functional.  You can't disable safeties to get a better trigger pull for example. 

Good luck and welcome to bullseye.

John

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Post by toughmandave on Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:27 pm

smsnyder wrote:THANKS I will be shooting a Smith And Wesson 22 caliber model 41 5.5 barrel with a Vortex Venom red dot. Also just pick up a Sig P320  X5 legion in 9mm.
I am bullseye shooting with S&W Model 41 5.5 barrel with a Ultradot Match II red dot.  I just entered the centerfire portion of our bullseye competition with my Sig P320 X-Five with a Romeo 3 red dot.  Randal Fung match grips are currently being made (takes about 4 - 5 weeks in production).  I used to have Fung grips on my old Model 41 but sold the gun and can't wait for the new grips which will help my scores slightly.  What really helped my Sig 320 was the installation of Gray Guns drop in competition trigger kit.  That reduced the trigger pull from 5 lbs 14 ounces to 2 lbs 12 ounces.  That made a huge improvement to my bullseye competition.  I think your P320 Legion will be perfect for your bullseye shooting.  I know I wouldn't trade out of my combination for anything.  Dave

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Post by rkittine on Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:55 am

Since I am just starting out in Bullseye (I am 71), I found this thread to get some insite and questions answered. I hope to start shooting in one of the leagues on Long Island, in September forward.

So, is there an association I should join? How do I get a copy of all the rules. I do have 2 target 45s for that class, 1 Model 52 and two .32 S&W Long pistols for CF and a Model 41 with a 7 3/8" and 5.5" barrel for .22 plus a High Standard Victor and a Buckmark Target.

Bob
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Post by Jwhelan939 on Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:53 am

Bob, sounds like you're set in the pistol department. You can get a pdf of the rulebook online if you Google, "nra precision pistol rule book" the pdf is the first hit listed. Welcome to the group!

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Post by Asa Yam on Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:14 pm

Jwhelan939 wrote:You can get a pdf of the rulebook online if you Google, "nra precision pistol rule book" the pdf is the first hit listed.
Try these:  
NRA Rulebook:  https://competitions.nra.org/media/8365/nra-precision-pistol-rules.pdf
CMP Rules:  https://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2020PistolRules.pdf

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Post by rkittine on Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:34 pm

Thanks, I will get the rule book at go through it. I have the pistols, but don't know if I can build the skills. Will just have to see and find out.

Bob
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Post by Asa Yam on Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:57 pm

rkittine wrote:...I have the pistols, but don't know if I can build the skills...
Bob,

  Been playing this game since 1995,  the most I have to show for it is an NRA Marksman's card.  Been playing with rifles too much?

  Good luck!


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Post by hg401 on Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:42 pm

rkittine wrote:Thanks, I will get the rule book at go through it. I have the pistols, but don't know if I can build the skills. Will just have to see and find out.

Bob

IMO, you really don't need to build the skills as much as you need to enjoy the process of building.

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