View point - gun control or criminal control?

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View point - gun control or criminal control?

Post by Chris_D on 1/3/2013, 6:07 am

We have another thread dealing with gun control, however I was just pondering some other ideas that were a bit different, yet still dealing with the issue of gun control.

According to the data I have found (localized to Chicago), 87% of murders were committed by people with a prior arrest record AKA, criminals. The murders were NOT committed by the guns, rather by the people using the guns!

From that, I see the core of the problem being the people (well, duh, we have all been saying that since the beginning of time). But which people are to blame? The criminals have been arrested for doing something bad but who is responsible for those people? We the citizens really are not suppose to "take the law into our own hands". Even in self defense were are very open to prosecution.

No, it is not the responsibility of the citizens to deal with criminals, it is the law enforcement agencies and the governments at all levels. They are paid by us, the law abiding citizens, to keep us safe. The court systems, again, paid by law abiding citizens, are suppose to determine guilt and provide punishment. So, between the courts and law enforcement, their sole function is to keep us safe and uphold the laws.

However, looking at the data published by law enforcement, it certainly indicates that law enforcement and the court systems are not keeping us safe. If the legal system "contained" the criminal element, there would have been 435 less murders in the city of Chicago during 2012. So, looking at the data and drilling down to the root cause, I see that the legal system is primarily at fault for those murders, not the guns and not the criminals.

Furthermore, the data does not indicate how many of those guns were legally owned. Assuming just half of the remaining murders were executed by people illegally in possession of guns, that would be 32 additional murders.

That brings the grand total up to 467 murders that could have been prevented if the legal system enforced the existing laws.

Now lets look at the gun bans (which there are many bills going around right now-including complete bans on all firearms). If guns are banned, the law abiding citizens who legally own guns have to turn in their guns or become criminals. So, to avoid becoming a criminal, all of us law abiding people turn in their guns. Because we are law abiding people, chances are very high that we would not have committed murder at any point in our lives. However, the criminals who don't abide by the laws, maintain possession of their firearms and continue to commit murder at the same rate as before.

End result...
good guys can't have guns
bad guys keep guns
murders continue at same rate as before
the government and legal system still isn't responsible for failings on their part
and Americans lose yet another freedom

Maybe I am just having a bad morning.



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Re: View point - gun control or criminal control?

Post by Virgil Kane on 1/3/2013, 7:44 am

The laws of Illinois are a joke. The following was not a murder but did happen to my son in Chicago.

My son was going to collage and living off campus in the downtown Chicago area. He was living on the 3rd floor of an appartment building, Safe Huh?

At 2:20 AM 5 people broke down the back door and entered the appartment and proceeded to beat my son on the head and face with wrenches and pipes. They did this because my son was the first to get up and asked them "who the F are you and what are you doing". He now has 3 plates in his head and had to undergo facial reconstruction for a broken nose, broken jaw and a crushed orbital bone not to mention dozens of stiches and staples. His 3 other roommates were also beaten but faired better with only stiches to the head and face.

This was a clear case of home invasion BUT 4 out of the 5 recieved 1 year probation and the 5th got 1 year supervision. This from what should have been a class X felony in IL but was reduced to misdemeanors. Judge said they were reduced because there is no physical scares. Just ask my son about the loss of feeling to his face, the loss of sense of smell, the plates and titanium mesh that now hold his face and head together and the brain damage that was done because of this beating.

My son is luck to have survived this brutal beating and I thank God for that but I am forever holding the judicial system in IL responcable for not giving these thugs some hard time.

It's the liberal judges that are making our streets unsafe.

Maybe I too am having a bad morning but then I've had a bad morning ever since this incedent happened.


Really pissed and rightfully so.


Virgil Kane

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Re: View point - gun control or criminal control?

Post by Al on 1/3/2013, 9:25 am

I'm speachless. Personally, I don't know if I'd be able to restrain myself. Just not sure if it's the perps or the judges that are worse. I lean towards the judges.

Prayers to you and your family.


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Re: View point - gun control or criminal control?

Post by BE Mike on 1/3/2013, 9:35 am

Cook County Illinois is a cesspool. It has a history of socialism, corruption, failure and oppression, yet our "leaders" in the beltway are from this area. The scales have tipped. The takers outnumber the contributors. They hold the power of the vote.
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Re: View point - gun control or criminal control?

Post by DavidR on 1/3/2013, 10:31 am

Crimes are always about the criminal, inanimate objects do nothing until put into motion by a person. In the hands of a criminal or deranged person, most anything can become a deadly weapon. In the hands of a good person most anything can be used for good things.

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Re: View point - gun control or criminal control?

Post by jakuda on 1/3/2013, 11:16 am

Let me throw some stats out and let you guys interpret it with the eye test. Not offering any opinion at this point.

(from; I did not vet sources of all stats)
# of privately held firearms:
USA: 270million
UK: 4.1 million
Canada: 10million
Japan: 710,000

# of homicides:
USA: 14,159
UK: 724
Canada: 610
Japan: 582

# of gun homicides:
USA: 9,146
UK: 18
Canada: 173
Japan: 11


USA: 298 million
UK: 59.7 million
Canada: 32.3 million
Japan: 128 million


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Re: View point - gun control or criminal control?

Post by BE Mike on 1/3/2013, 12:39 pm

This is a little dated, but I think points to lack of connection between guns and violent crime.
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Re: View point - gun control or criminal control?

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