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Why an Ultra Dot Match dot sight?

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Why an Ultra Dot Match dot sight? Empty Why an Ultra Dot Match dot sight?

Post by smsnyder on 9/7/2019, 5:46 pm

Why you guys using this type of sight vs a reflex sight? What size dot you guys using?

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Post by Wobbley on 9/7/2019, 6:28 pm

Dot sizes seem to be trending smaller but most use 2 MOA to 6 MOA.
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Post by smsnyder on 9/7/2019, 6:31 pm

2 moa to a 6 moa is a big spread? What does these dot sights cost? Thanks

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Post by Wobbley on 9/7/2019, 6:36 pm

A pretty big spread in cost. $200 to $700 depending on make and model. The real question is do you want reflex or tube. I have both and am warming up to reflex more. But make sure the reticle is a dot and not something exotic.
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Post by smsnyder on 9/7/2019, 6:41 pm

I love the leupold Delta Point Pro so much I ordered a second one for my 9mm target gun. I had a vortex venom and sold it. Leupold has a larger glass. Bigger screw slots to adjust the sight. Nice top loading battery. No screw driver needed. Easier to adjust red dot levels. The red dot goes on and off by itself just by moving the gun.

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Post by Allgoodhits on 9/7/2019, 7:34 pm

smsnyder wrote:I love the leupold Delta Point Pro so much I ordered a second one for my 9mm target gun. I had a vortex venom and sold it. Leupold has a larger glass. Bigger screw slots to adjust the sight. Nice top loading battery. No screw driver needed. Easier to adjust red dot levels. The red dot goes on and off by itself just by moving the gun.

For .22LR what ever sight /dot you like is likely fine. When it comes to .45 and probably centerfire if one shoots a caliber less than .45, then most people will make a sight adjustment going from 50 yds to 25 to 50. That adjustment, varies between shooters and scopes. Those adjustments which must be easy to determine, adjust, then return to previous settings, easily, quickly and repeatable zero, time after time. For this reason, inexpensive, or lesser quality scopes do not hold up. Either they will not repeat zero after many, many changes, or they loose the "clicks" we use to determine the adjustment, or they move after the adjustment.

I will not address brands "newly manufactured" which are substandard "today" but, I will say on a positive side, AIMPOINT seems to garner the attention of many. The 9000SC and Micro H1 are seen quite often among the best shooters on the line. I think that means something worthy of being a clue. They have good optics, solid construction, long battery life, repeatable zero and positive clicks. Fairly expensive, but what is a lost zero worth 50 - 300 miles from home, and of course in the middle of match?
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Post by mikemyers on 9/7/2019, 8:09 pm

smsnyder wrote:Why you guys using this type of sight vs a reflex sight? What size dot you guys using?
Lots of things to consider.....
Weight - the Aimpoint 9000sc is a wonderful sight, with a wide field of view and a beautiful round dot, but it's heavy.  Or, you can can get a reflex sight which often is very light weight.

View - some sights allow you to see "more" around the target, or "less".  When the gun moves after you fire it, it can take a lot of time just to "find the dot" so you can take another shot.

Mount - if you're mounting a sight on a 22, it's not going to get abused that much, but if you mount it to the slide on a 45, unless you have a good mount, it might not last.  Even for the Aimpoint sights, a lot of people buy the Kodiak steel mount, which will last "forever".

Dot - some sights have a nice clean round dot, and others aren't so nice.  If your eyes have astigmatism, the dot is likely to be a "streak", not a dot.  Check this out before you buy.

Type of mount - if you're mounting the sight on a slide that moves back and forth, the added weight will change the way the gun functions.  You'll probably need to use a different recoil spring to make up for the added weight that is moving back and forth.

Glass - some sights have the glass lens in a location where it's more likely to get dirty or wet, and others have the glass recessed somewhat, maybe with a "lens hood" to protect the glass.

Adjustments - I have one old sight from years ago that doesn't get bright enough to allow it to be used in sunlight.  Make sure the sight you're going to buy has a wide enough range of adjustments.

Warranty - some sights have a warranty that lasts forever - if the sight has a problem, they'll fix it at no charge.

Auto-off - some sights will turn off automatically after a while if you forget.  This can help avoid a dead battery.

Battery - some sights use batteries that you can buy at the local hardware shop.  That can be helpful.

Mounting screws - if you're attaching the sight to a rail, make sure that the sight mount fits the type of rail on your gun, and that the mounting screws fit through the "notches".  

Budget - as noted up above, you can buy very inexpensive sights, or spent up to around a thousand dollars.

Waterproof - if this is a concern, make sure you buy an appropriate sight that is sealed to the weather.

MOA - the advice I was given was to get a 2MOA sight, as a larger dot covers up too much of the bullseye.  Most of my sights are 2MOA or 3MOA.


My opinion - you get what you pay for.

The Matcdot Ultradot you mentioned is a tube style sight, but Matchdot also makes the LT1 which is a reflex sight.  Because of the design, it's much lighter.
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Post by adminbot1911 on 9/7/2019, 9:02 pm

12MOA Ultradot 4-dot .22 at 50 and 25 with no sight adjustments, hold over only. 12 MOA is almost exactly the size of the aiming black for me at 50 yards.

4MOA Aimpoint H1 + Shue hoods in black FOR .45, also no manual sight adjustments.

Tried reflex sights, worked with some success in .22 only. Would NOT hold zero with .45. Might use for action shooting, not my first choice for bullseye.


Last edited by adminbot1911 on 9/9/2019, 6:57 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Corrections)
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Post by CrankyThunder on 9/8/2019, 6:39 am

Dear SMSnyder:

Most of the shoot and scoot guys, the idpa, ipsic and others, use the reflex sight because the reflex sight has less of a windowframe clutterng up the sight picture as they go from target to target to target.  Us bullseye shooters like the tube style sights because we use the tube of the sight to line up the gun during timed and rapid fire.  At least that is my opinion.  

There was a poll here on Bullseye L about dot size, the majority used 4 moa while a significant portion used 2 MOA.  Since most of the new micro dots are only available in 2 MOA, A lot of shooters are going to start using 2 moa dots as they downsize to the miro dots.  

Personally, I just downsized from a 9000 SC to a aimpoint H1.  I was fortunate whereas I found a 4 MOA H1 although looking through it, I am not sure there is much difference between a 2 MOA and 4 MOA aimpoint H1.  

Quite frankly, since I switched to the H1 on the Pardini, I took a long hard look at the Ultra Dot Match Dot II's on my other firearms and decided I have had enough of the negative magnification of the Ultra Dot and the additional weight on top of the gun.  Already switched one gun (FWB) to the Holosun, one of my 41's to a sig romeo 5 and my Free pistol to a old tasco Pro Point I had in the parts box.  I have a Nikon Micro Dot and a performance center micro dot on order for my other firearms.  

For what it is worth, the tasco pro point has one of the most purest dots I have ever seen.  It is a 5 moa dot and you turn the brightness down and shoot through the dot to the bull and it works very well for me on my free pistol.  Wish I could find a 4 moa dot as round and distinct as the tasco on a micro dot. 

Regards, 
Cranky
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Post by smsnyder on 9/8/2019, 7:13 am

Thanks guys

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Post by JayhawkNavy02 on 9/8/2019, 2:41 pm

Wobbley wrote:Dot sizes seem to be trending smaller but most use 2 MOA to 6 MOA.

6 MOA is a pretty big dot.  I haven’t ever seen someone shooting one, but I suppose it isn’t impossible.  I see most with 2 to 4 MOA.  Some dots like the UD MD II adjust from 2 - 8 MOA, I believe, but 6 is sizable.   Personally I won't buy another UD due to the negative magnification and poor reliability.  Battery life and lack of waterproofing are just extra reasons to go with Aimpoint....plus I have them at work.  Great dots.


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Post by adminbot1911 on 9/9/2019, 2:48 pm

I like big dots and I cannot lie
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Post by WesG on 9/9/2019, 11:00 pm

LOL!!!

'Baby got snacks ...'

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Post by bushidoshooting on 9/30/2020, 1:04 pm

CrankyThunder wrote:For what it is worth, the tasco pro point has one of the most purest dots I have ever seen.  It is a 5 moa dot and you turn the brightness down and shoot through the dot to the bull and it works very well for me on my free pistol.  Wish I could find a 4 moa dot as round and distinct as the tasco on a micro dot. 

Regards, 
Cranky
After reading Crancky's old thread about the red dot this morning, I just realized that I also had a Tasco ProPoint somewhere but I have not seen it for a long time.  I think I bought that in late-90's if I am not mistaken.  After searching nearly 1hr in my storage, I finally found this guy.  It looks still brand new.  Now I put that on my RO+Nelson .22 conversion.  Bit heavy but not so bad.  Everything works just fine and the dot seems pretty good just like Crancky mentioned.  It seems 4MOA to me but it is 5MOA.  I like the dot because it is a pure round dot.  Maybe I will give better mount rings later on if this combination works alright.  
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Post by Joe Morgan on 9/30/2020, 1:08 pm

Does Aimpoint ever have specials or deals? A preferred vendor?

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Post by Jon Eulette on 9/30/2020, 1:11 pm

I used the Tasco Pro Point II on my 22, 38 and 45 back in the early 90’s. Had 100k plus rounds on all three pistols and those cheap optics lasted through it all. 890’s with the optics as well (895, 889 & 890 respectively). I was disappointed when I could no longer get them.
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Post by john bickar on 9/30/2020, 1:59 pm

I have one of those ProPoints in the garage on a S&W 41 upper. Still works. I haven't shot with it, though.
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Post by radjag on 9/30/2020, 2:52 pm

I'm a newbie and have never come across the Tasco ProPoint. Before getting into Bullseye I started with reflex style (mostly Vortex Venom), but found that they "starburst" to my eyes. Tried several others and settled on Ultradot 1" 4moa - the cleanest, roundest dot I have experienced - to my eyes at least. But then I started to suffer problems and had to return several units to UD USA for service. The UD 1" never actually let me down in a match, but I lost confidence in them.

Other folks recommended Aimpoint 9000, but they just look too big and ugly on a pistol to my mind.

I have now switched to Aimpoint H1 4moa on Kodiak mounts with Photoescape shades and apertures. I agree with one of the other posters that the H1 dot size does appear smaller than 4moa, especially on less bright settings, and the dot sometimes is not perfectly round and clear to my sad old eyes. But 100% reliable so far. I now have several, and this thread has prompted me to compare all of them to check whether the dot size is consistent - I will report back in due course.

I wish that the H1 brightness control was less "coarse" - I find that settings 7, 8 and 9 are the only ones that are useful in outdoor conditions. I'd like an extra half step in between each of those.

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Post by GME on 10/14/2020, 8:47 pm

I have 2 Ultradot Matchdot IIs.  One on my Mod. 41 and the other on my Mod. 52.  I use them both in the 2 MOA setting.  With my 71 year old eyes, a red dot allows me to keep shooting.  Neither has given me a problem. 

I guess I got lucky, because neither has the negative magnification so often mentioned - at least as far as I can tell.  If either had negative magnification, I believe I'd notice; I shoot with both eyes wide open.

I have to admit some curiosity with reflex sights.  The one that's caught my eye is the Vortex Razor in 3 moa.  Street price is $400, so it's on the pricey side. I need to buy a 1911 in .45, so it will be awhile before I can try it out.


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Post by LenV on 10/17/2020, 12:23 pm

I have too many pistols to be able to afford an H1 (out of production) for every pistol. Yes, I know that's an oxymoron. But I do like to keep things consistent. I have managed to find enough Sig Romeo 4A (out of production) to set up one set of pistols with that sight. My A series 41, 52 no dash and my old Gold Cup. I also got enough good deals to set up another set all with Nikon P-tacticals. Ruger mk4, 952-2 and a RO. Sort of like the old guns and the new guns. I also have 11 Ultradots mounted on various pistols with zero problems or at least no problems that were not solved by placing a tiny bit of aluminum foil on the battery. I have sold, gave away or trashed every reflex sight I've tried. Now that the H1 is out of production there is going to be a search for the next great dot. I think I am probably good for awhile. I also have 3 Sightrons that work great..
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Post by David R on 10/17/2020, 12:44 pm

I use both.   The Tube sights are easier to pick up for  a newbie.  Once you get the hang of it, it does not matter to me.   

I find the bigger dot is easer on the eyes.   I have a Trijicon SRO which just came out. Its a huge screen and a well defined dot that is round and clear to me. I have a 2.5 MOA  and a 5 MOA.  I find the 5 MOA to be much easier on the eyes.   It  fills up plenty of black, but to me its  circle in a circle just like my Sporter rifle with Peep and Globe.   Both are mounted on the slide. 

SRO claims 3 years battery life.   So far its true.   Adjustments are repeatable.  I have one on my Dan Wesson 1911 9mm  and one on my Gold Cup in 45.  Zero problems.   I also shoot steel bowling pins.  They work perfect for me.

I have an Ultradot on my 22, and she has a Tasco tube type red dot on her 22.   Both shoot great and are easily adjustable.  We do not change my rimfire from 25 to 50 yards.  

Its about how much you want to spend and your personal prefrences.

Enjoy finding out.

David
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Post by dpelletier on 10/17/2020, 4:17 pm

I have an UltraDot MatchDot II on my Pardini... I usually have it set at 2MOA when shooting indoors if I can have all the range lights off except for the targets.
If more light, I'll go to whatever MOA I need to see the dot clearly.
My focus is on the target, so I just need to see the dot overlayed on the target.

On my S&W Model 41, I have an Aimpoint micro H1.

I like them both equally.

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Post by David R on 10/17/2020, 9:04 pm

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Post by Outthere on 10/18/2020, 8:25 am

I've switched over to Aimpoint. I got tired of broken UD's. I've had 2 UD's fail on me on the line at Perry,(of course). I've had to send 2 others back for repair.
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