Please advise me on a Nelson conversion problem

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Post by CO1Mtn on Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:46 pm

Hello,

If you have time, would you please advise me on an equipment problem? My Nelson conversion is failing to feed. It is always on the second round. It fires once, then fails to feed. Regardless of whether I load five or ten rounds, it will fail to strip the second round from the magazine. And, it's never the third, fourth, or fifth round. It's always the second one. I tried three different magazines and it happens with all of them. I also tried changing out the main drive spring to an eight pound spring, then I tried a seven pound spring, and the problem has not gotten any better or worse. I tried taking the magazines apart and cleaning them and oiling the spring. It kept the problem at bay for about 50 rounds, but then it started back up again. What do you think the problem is?
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Post by Roddy Toyota on Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:35 pm

Hi,  Need more info.  What ammo are you shooting?  What frame/lower is the Nelson mated to?  What exactly do you mean by "failing to feed"?  Describe the "failure".
Cheers,
Roddy
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Post by chopper on Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:43 pm

Did it happen with any other frame or is this your first frame you mounted it on? Same thing happened to me on a new frame but not the old one. I'd say it's mag release related, either try a different mag release or modify the slot on the magazine. I called Larry Nelson and he will walk you through on trouble shooting it. Do make sure you have your pistol and mags with you when you call him.
 They really bend over backwards to help, very nice of him. Their number: 480-699-8040
Stan

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Post by james r chapman on Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:15 am

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Post by kc.crawford.7 on Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:50 am

Sounds like a magazine release problem.  Again more info is needed, what are you calling a failure to feed?  Photo or complete description of the problem will give a better chance of a resolve.
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Post by Tim:H11 on Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:55 am



Thanks for sharing my post. After talking with Larry about all that and polishing that edge on the slide, he incorporated that into the new units. Units are marked with a number on the barrel to let you know what version, or iteration they’re on as they make minor changes or tweaks to the design. I believe they’re on #8 now or maybe #9. I spoke with Larry at Camp perry - it was really nice to finally meet him in person. And new units are radiussed better in that location to mimic the way a marvel is radiused. Does this solve everyone’s problems of failure to feed ornextract? No because we all use different springs and frames so each gun has to be tuned to run by itself. But it’s nice to know that they’re open to suggestions and info from a shooter who’s not a gunsmith. They took what I had to say, investigated it, and made a change. Big brand companies probably wouldn’t give me the time of day but Larry works with shooters to make sure you’re happy and that is priceless to me when dealing with this sport and guns that cost so much as it is.


As to the original post here in this thread.. I find it odd that the gun won’t pick up a specific round out of the magazine. Like it’s always number two.. but you could try making sure you have the right hammer spring, recoil spring and look at your slide to see if you have the edge I deleted from my gun too. With these conversions it about finding what it takes to get the slide to move at the right speed to function. Not too fast and not too slow. How do we figure that out? Try it, try it again, and keep trying till it works. Fortunately there are somematandards tomstart with that should work. 18 or 19 pound hammer spring and an eight pound recoil spring ought to work.

However - it may not be a spring issue at all. Might try a magazine release/catch that allows the mag to sit higher. Sometimes - depending on the frame/mag catch - the mag doesn’t sit high enough and we see feed issues.

Good luck.
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Post by james r chapman on Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:18 am

I think the 2nd round is under the most mag spring pressure and changing the radius relieves some of the resistance.
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Post by DA/SA on Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:30 am

When I first got my Marvel it choked on the second round right out of the box for the first few magazines, then ran fine.

Strange thing is, if I have it off of the frame and put it back on it does the same. Even just pulling a bore shake through it while on the frame, it will choke on the second round for the next few magazines, then run fine again.

A friend saw mine and he too bought a Marvel. I saw him a few weeks ago and his does exactly as mine does.

l just know to never clean it before a match, or to run three or four magazines through it if I do to get it running right.

Something about the second round regardless of ammo...

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Post by lablover on Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:42 am

Mine when I first bought it choked on the second round.  I bought some gsg metal magazines and never had the problem again.....ever. Plastic mags gave me fits.  Can’t explain it but it works fine now with metal mags.
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Post by DA/SA on Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:03 am

Mine does it on both the Marvel plastic and GSG steel magazines.

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Post by mspingeld on Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:05 am

I would take 6 rounds and only load the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th & 6th. No 2nd round. Problem solved! Wink

Definitely call Larry. He'll solve your issue.

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Post by jglenn21 on Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:55 am

I shot next  to Daniel at the match in question
..we tried an 8 and 7b recoil.spring as well as two new Nelson Mags i had with me.. the 7 lb spring got him through the last match but that has now failed apparently. If memory serves he's had the conversion for a while before the problem appeared..  the failure he has is that the second round is simply not stripped fron the mag.  Like a classic short stroke of the slide. I only saw it fail on the second round of a 5 round string. Jim is right about that round pressing the hardest on the slide thus more drag.

We had limited time to diagnose the issue as i had my own equipment "challenges" last weekend.🙄
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Post by expendable on Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:28 am

When I first got my Nelson conversion I had a similar problem. 
I noticed that the first round always seemed to eject weaker than the rest and would cause it to short stroke and not pick up the second round in the magazine. 

I asked a question about it here https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t4039-mainspring-weight-for-conversion

I changed the recoil spring and lowered the mainspring to #19 and that helped

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Post by John Dervis on Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:09 pm

I had a similar sounding problem with my Marvel. It's an older unit and has always run perfectly on dedicated Rock River frame.  It started not stripping the second round out of the magazine.  At first it was intermittent but then got worse.  I changed out the magazine release with my wad gun and the problem went away.  Eventually I got a new mag catch from the guys at Perry so both guns are back to normal parts.
It's an easy fix to try if you have spare 1911 around.

Good luck.
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Post by CO1Mtn on Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:17 pm

Thank you all for your help. By the way if you haven't met Mr. Glenn, he's a helpful person. I wouldn't have been able to compete in that EIC match without him. The only way to get my Nelson to stop malfunctioning was to replace that recoil spring, disassemble the pistol and the magazines, clean both thoroughly and apply a large amount of CLP oil. I oiled the ammo too. I put so much oil in everything that it was flying off the pistol as I was shooting...it was a bit much but I think all that oil is what barely kept it from malfunctioning. I ended up getting a gold pin. That was a tough match, with a lot of high scoring shooters, especially from the Georgia Army guard unit. I thought I was going to place, but they shot better than me and I think they took 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place.

But I need a more permanent solution to keep this pistol cycling reliably. I'm going to call Larry and ask for help, as you suggested, and I'll also buy some of the steel magazines.

I'm shooting with a 9 mm Range Officer which I had to file down the ejector in, because it was too tall to work with the Nelson. And I'm using CCI SV ammo.

Maybe a temporary fix would be to load a high velocity round as the first round, and have the rest as CCI standard velocity. Maybe that would give the slide enough energy to overcome the friction. The first round is loading ok since I'm pulling the slide all the way back and releasing it, manually. The second round is hanging up, probably because there is too much spring tension, and thus too much friction. I'm trying to think of the science behind the problem.

I'm also going to bring an empty cardboard box with me, with the lid removed. I don't reload since I only shoot .22, but I noticed that the man to my right had to put up a chickenwire screen to defelct my brass. I'm going to use a box and stand it up on its side to trap my brass next time.
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Post by jglenn21 on Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:19 am

If your RO has the ILS mainspring or even a std mainspring you definitely need a lighter mainspring.. a 19lb should work fine and not affect the pistol when shot as a 9mm
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Post by Dcforman on Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:35 am

jglenn21 wrote:If your RO has the ILS mainspring or even a std mainspring you definitely need a lighter mainspring.. a 19lb should work fine and not affect the pistol when shot as a 9mm
Yup. Also, the Brownells brand 22 conversion magazines work quite well with my Nelson. The spring tension on them is a little lighter.

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Post by CO1Mtn on Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:35 am

What does it mean "mainspring?"
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Post by Wobbley on Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:05 am

The “mainspring” refers to the spring driving the hammer. It is found in the “mainspring housing” at the rear base of the frame. The spring underneath the barrel is the recoil spring. Both of these springs affect function.
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Post by CO1Mtn on Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:30 pm

The lighter mainspring fixed it!
I shot a whole 2700 today with not a single malfunction.
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Post by james r chapman on Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:29 pm

Please advise me on a Nelson conversion problem 2935285009
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