Aristocrat Products - PPC competition Tri-Set Sights

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Post by Slartybartfast on 10/9/2019, 12:14 pm

So, any one who is familiar with my posts is familiar with the fact that I'm not very interested in 1911's. Tanfoglios and Pardini .45s seemed just too much to spend at this point in time, so that lead me to purchasing a CZ97 B as a 1911 alternative for the .45 stages.

Having purchased the CZ, I start looking at upgrade possibilities and aftermarket parts. And after the US options of Cajun Gunworks and CZ Custom, I found a German gunsmith Waffen-Oschatz that seems to do incredible work.

Their 6" CZ 97 with custom machined and hand fitted slide is a real beauty. 
https://www.waffen-oschatz.de/cz-97-sport/

But I noticed something about all their models. The same sight was used and it looked familiar (as did the sight rail). Seems to be the Tri-Set sight from Aristocrat Products.
https://www.waffen-oschatz.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/CZ-75-Sport-Wechselsysteme-9.jpg
http://www.aristocratproducts.com/page2.html

Strikes me as the Aristocrat sight is another great product that doesn't see much use because it's neither well known nor is it available for popular pistols used today (and the move towards red-dots).

But Aristocrat figured out how to simplify sight settings for three distances, so why isn't such a system popular among BE shooters for the two distances?

With many pistols coming out with optics plates, would an Aristocrat sight adapted to one of the red-dot bases be a good idea?

Seems it's a bit like the Nill and Rink grips (got told by Rink and Nill they have no plans to make Ruger MkIV grips FFS), quality niche products are missing out on new sales because they won't or can't adapt.
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Post by Allgoodhits on 10/9/2019, 3:16 pm

The Aristocrat Tri Set rib (rear sight) followed the Bill Davis Tri Set rib (front sight). They were designed for PPC.

Here is how most set them up:

#1 is used for point of aim, point of impact. Call it center hold.

Two and three, were used so that one could hold up into, at or just below the head on a B27, B34 or B29 target and the bullets would impact significantly lower into the scoring ring area at center mass.

#2 is used for head/neck hold on B27 target at 25 yds. IOW, hold sights at head/neck area and bullet impacts the center of the target. This is about a 15 " drop at 25 yards.

#3 is used for head/neck hold on B27 target at 50 yds. This is the also a 15" drop but at 50 yds.

It could be used a number of different ways, but that was the original intended use.
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Post by james r chapman on 10/9/2019, 3:33 pm

Figures since 1500 PPC is popular in Europe.

Problem here usually irons used only for EIC matches and that sight is illegal as I recall.

Otherwise everyone uses a dot
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Post by Slartybartfast on 10/9/2019, 3:52 pm

james r chapman wrote:Figures since 1500 PPC is popular in Europe.

Problem here usually irons used only for EIC matches and that sight is illegal as I recall.

Otherwise everyone uses a dot
Why is the sight illegal?
Who's everyone? Plenty of irons at the spring state championship 2700 and fall 2700 in Vermont.
I'll use irons as long as I can.
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Post by james r chapman on 10/9/2019, 4:29 pm

Yeah, not EVERYONE shoots dots
Let’s just the vast, unquestionable, majority, shoot a dot and leave it at that.
Ok, I stand corrected, only adjustable front sight is illegal. The very expensive rear sight apparently is legal.
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Post by Sa-tevp on 10/9/2019, 5:21 pm

Would the Aristocrat Tri Sight have enough adjustment range for Bullseye use? Would it have to mounted on an angle to be used for BE? A lot of sights run out of travel just trying for center hold or deep sub-6: most will cover one hold OR the other. The Aristocrat sounds like for it was made more for deep drops for PPC.
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Post by james r chapman on 10/9/2019, 6:23 pm

Yes. With PPC you might drop 25-30 clicks, going from center hold to neck hold for 25 and 50 yds. That’s like 19”, 
not the 3-5 clicks for BE
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Post by Sa-tevp on 10/9/2019, 7:48 pm

james r chapman wrote:Yes. With PPC you might drop 25-30 clicks, going from center hold to neck hold for 25 and 50 yds. That’s like 19”, 
not the 3-5 clicks for BE

I've been getting spoiled by Euro 22s that basically are delivered as "You're an adult, here are several front sights by width and height and a very adjustable rear sight. Figure out what you want to do" versus American sights that lack the adjustment options. 

I wasn't sure if the Aristocrat had enough UP range for sub-6 as it was intended for DOWN adjustment.

Former Ypsi resident Stephen
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Post by james r chapman on 10/9/2019, 7:58 pm

I’ll have to try it!

Aristocrat Products - PPC competition Tri-Set Sights 067a2410
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Post by Allgoodhits on 10/9/2019, 8:18 pm

Sa-tevp wrote:
james r chapman wrote:Yes. With PPC you might drop 25-30 clicks, going from center hold to neck hold for 25 and 50 yds. That’s like 19”, 
not the 3-5 clicks for BE

I've been getting spoiled by Euro 22s that basically are delivered as "You're an adult, here are several front sights by width and height and a very adjustable rear sight. Figure out what you want to do" versus American sights that lack the adjustment options. 

I wasn't sure if the Aristocrat had enough UP range for sub-6 as it was intended for DOWN adjustment.

Former Ypsi resident Stephen

The Aristocrat Tri Set rib or Tri set rear sight "will" have enough vertical adjustment to essentially make the gun shoot 3 - 8" high at 25 and 50 yds. If you are considering the rear sight and NOT the complete rib, then you likely will need a taller front sight blade.
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Post by KB2MBC on 10/10/2019, 7:32 am

I have the Aristocrat Tri Set Rib on one of my wad guns. The rear sight had to be raised quite a bit in order to shoot sub-six.
I ended up filing the front sight down (carefully) then a touchup bluing. Look/works nice, rear sight is not way up now and still has plenty of room for adjustment.

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Post by james r chapman on 10/10/2019, 8:50 am

It’s unfortunate that so few realize the NRA has the PPC course of fire under Action Pistol as the NRA civilian 1500.
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Post by jmdavis on 10/10/2019, 9:47 am

I think that those sights are illegal for Distinguished revolver.
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Post by Slartybartfast on 10/10/2019, 9:54 am

james r chapman wrote:Yeah, not EVERYONE shoots dots
Let’s just the vast, unquestionable, majority, shoot a dot and leave it at that.
Ok, I stand corrected, only adjustable front sight is illegal. The very expensive rear sight apparently is legal.
Whether the majority of BE shooters use dots or not is irrelevant. There are plenty who do not.
It's quite poor form when discussing niche products in a niche sport to be so dismissive of alternate approaches. Quite laughable that you seen to be dismissive of "the very expensive rear sight" considering the expense of all manner of other equipment (not to mention dots) used in BE.
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Post by Slartybartfast on 10/10/2019, 10:06 am

jmdavis wrote:I think that those sights are illegal for Distinguished revolver.
I'm not so sure they are specifically disallowed.
The sights rule says only: "(b) Sights- Fixed or adjustable rear sights may be used. An Adjustable front sight is not allowed. "
However the main rule of "Except for stocks and the honing of the sear or sear notch to make a more crisp trigger, and maintain a 2 1/2 lb. minimum trigger pull, no external or internal modification may be made to the revolver as manufactured and sold by the factory of origin" may indeed make them illegal for DR. If added.
Without homologation requirements, what distinguishes a "factory" from a custom shop and something mass produced from a rare custom?
Chiappa has this model: https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=557&l=7
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Post by Slartybartfast on 10/10/2019, 10:13 am

james r chapman wrote:It’s unfortunate that so few realize the NRA has the PPC course of fire under Action Pistol as the NRA civilian 1500.
Seems to me it's unfortunate that the NRA with it's size and power takes in all shooting disciplines and then seems to fail to promote and run them any better than the tiny cash strapped local and national federations in other countries.
Just looked and the USA doesn't have a member federation of the WA1500.
http://www.wa1500.org/members.php

My intent is really in looking for good adjustable rear sights that can be used or adapted for BE.

IMO it's one of the more ridiculous idiosyncrasies in the firearms world. Except for firearms using MIL-spec rails the number of ways and standards to attach sights to firearms is ridiculous.
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Post by Slartybartfast on 10/10/2019, 10:38 am

Sa-tevp wrote:


I've been getting spoiled by Euro 22s that basically are delivered as "You're an adult, here are several front sights by width and height and a very adjustable rear sight. Figure out what you want to do" versus American sights that lack the adjustment options. 
The basic lack of information on sights is something I find frustrating. What distance and hold are fixed sights set for? What is the adjustment range of adjustable sights? What is the adjustment per click?
Even websites selling different sights lack information on what the various options do at different ranges.
It makes for a frustrating experience for beginners.
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Post by DA/SA on 10/10/2019, 11:33 am

Slartybartfast wrote: What distance and hold are fixed sights set for? 
That would be dependent on the ammo type, weight, and velocity being used, so how could a usable spec be published?

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Post by Slartybartfast on 10/10/2019, 2:36 pm

DA/SA wrote:
Slartybartfast wrote: What distance and hold are fixed sights set for? 
That would be dependent on the ammo type, weight, and velocity being used, so how could a usable spec be published?
They could publish what they designed/adjusted for.
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Post by Sa-tevp on 10/10/2019, 7:00 pm

Slartybartfast wrote:
Sa-tevp wrote:


I've been getting spoiled by Euro 22s that basically are delivered as "You're an adult, here are several front sights by width and height and a very adjustable rear sight. Figure out what you want to do" versus American sights that lack the adjustment options. 
The basic lack of information on sights is something I find frustrating. What distance and hold are fixed sights set for? What is the adjustment range of adjustable sights? What is the adjustment per click?
Even websites selling different sights lack information on what the various options do at different ranges.
It makes for a frustrating experience for beginners.

European cartridge target pistols are set for 25 meters except for free pistols and all give distance per click for sight adjustments in their manuals.

For other pistols you need a dial indicator (or other means of measuring click adjustment) and some math. 

Brownells Sight Correction Calculator
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Post by Sa-tevp on 10/10/2019, 7:09 pm

Here is a sight adjustment chart from Gun Talk Online. It is for adjustable sights on 1911s and a few 22s.

Aristocrat Products - PPC competition Tri-Set Sights Sightadj
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Post by james r chapman on 10/10/2019, 8:44 pm

Slartybartfast wrote:


My intent is really in looking for good adjustable rear sights that can be used or adapted for BE.
ok, you asked. Anschutz sight.

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Post by JIMPGOV on 10/10/2019, 10:21 pm

THE ARISTROCRAT TRI-SET REAR SIGHT IS APPROVED. THE S&W PPC9 IS APPROVED AND THAT IS THE STANDARD REAR SIGHT FOR THAT GUN. FOR BULLSEYE THE TRI-SET WOULD WORK EASILY. POSITION 1 FOR 25YD AND POSITION 3 FOR 50YDS. ON THE TRI-SET YOU ZERO ELEVATION USING THE SMALL ALAN SCREW FOR EACH POSITION. THE REGULAR CLICK ELEVATION SCREW IS FOR ADJUSTMENT DUE TO LIGHT, OR AMMO CHANGES. JIM P

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