38 SP brass for wadcutters

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Post by straybrit on 10/13/2019, 6:48 pm

Just a small data point for anyone loading this - the new brass from Precision Delta is actually from Starline and doesn't play nicely for the full wadcutter. At least not in it's new state. Using Alex's full length powder transfer unit it jams solid on the reloader. Interestingly some of the brass in their remanufactured ammunition is their own head stamp.

So my next move is to use a standard case bell on the new brass, load wadcutter - accepting that it may deform the hollow base - shoot it and see (a) if it's accurate and (b) if the brass is more usable afterwards.

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Post by bruce martindale on 10/13/2019, 7:35 pm

If the internals of the case are tapered in the lower section, that won't change with use.

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Post by straybrit on 10/13/2019, 9:32 pm

Yeah - that's why I used the singular :-). I strongly suspect that is the case - if you will pardon the pun. The PD help line is not exactly a lot of use. I do wonder if their 'new' loaded ammunition isn't full length sizing for the wadcutter bullets. Yet another experiment, this sport seems to be an endless stream of them.

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Post by Deerspy on 10/13/2019, 10:01 pm

I find  Remington brass work best for HBWC bullets

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Post by mustachio on 11/12/2019, 9:23 am

I find Federal, Winchester and RP to be the most pleasant to reload for my model 52. I have had no issues with them and I have been loading for over 30 years.  YMMV...
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Post by Wobbley on 11/12/2019, 4:01 pm

Over the past several weeks I’ve been measuring 38 Special brass in my stash to determine if there any validity to the claim that “Wadcutter brass” is different than ordinary 38 Special brass.  I did this by measuring the case wall thickness at the mouth and then determining the case length that is cylindrical from the mouth.  The results indicate that There isn’t an easy answer to the question.  Remington Wadcutter brass has less cylinder than other brass used to load Range Practice Ammo.  The OP of this thread had issues with Starline, yet by my method Starline has a decent cylinder length.  The two photos show a WCC +P+ and the next is a Remington from LRN. 

The cylinder length was the distance of the case mouth to the black frame subtracted from the distance to center center of the indicator. 




38 SP brass for wadcutters Da6f0710


38 SP brass for wadcutters 7b92d210

I’ve attached the PhD File of the raw data and the summary.  

My take on all this is that 1. There is no specific “Wadcutter Brass” and 2. Avoid +P and especially +P+ brass.
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38 SP brass for wadcutters Attachment
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Post by lablover on 11/12/2019, 4:24 pm

This is interesting as I’m ready to start loading for 38 special and was wondering what brass to use for both RN and full Wadcutter
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Post by Wobbley on 11/12/2019, 4:36 pm

Based on this study, avoid +P brass and favor Federal or Winchester.
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Post by lablover on 11/12/2019, 4:41 pm

Wobbley wrote:Based on this study, avoid +P brass and favor Federal or Winchester.
Does it matter f the brass has the double crimp rings on them?  I have some federal that has that.
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Post by bruce martindale on 11/12/2019, 4:54 pm

Another way to study it is to use a full diameter pin gauge and see how deep it slides into the case. Amazing what it shows!

Ya got some neat tools there AP!

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Post by Wobbley on 11/12/2019, 5:28 pm

lablover wrote:
Wobbley wrote:Based on this study, avoid +P brass and favor Federal or Winchester.
Does it matter f the brass has the double crimp rings on them?  I have some federal that has that.

The double “canellure” brass is/was supposed to be from Wadcutter ammo.  It is fine.  From this study, I believe the cannelures were to control bullet “pull” somewhat.  The lower one is at the end of the cylinder portion of the case. This is roughly where’re the bullet base is.  The upper one is somewhere on the bullet body.  I’d have to have samples of the bullets to figure out where this canellure is.  It is my guess that these two canellures are why factory ammo shoots better than we can get our reloads to shoot even if we load the factory bullet.
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Post by Wobbley on 11/12/2019, 5:29 pm

bruce martindale wrote:Another way to study it is to use a full diameter pin gauge and see how deep it slides into the case. Amazing what it shows!

Ya got some neat tools there AP!
Detritus from when I ran a machine shop... Cool
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Post by bruce martindale on 11/12/2019, 7:16 pm

BTW....l forgot to mention that a drill shank serves as a pin gauge

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Post by Archer Gravely on 11/30/2019, 7:32 am

I have found that the double cannelure brass will always feed properly in the M52.  Other .38 brass can be problematic.
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Post by Founder on 11/30/2019, 11:08 pm

New Starline being free from any lubricating contaminants is common to stick tightly to expanders and powder through expanders.

I recommend washing all new Starline in Meguiars Wash and Wax car soap. It leaves just enough wax residue to lubricate the brass on the expander.
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Post by OldShooter43 on 12/2/2019, 12:09 pm

Would "One Shot" case lube work as well as the car wash & wax?  I'm assuming that the cases are stood on end when being sprayed.

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Post by spursnguns on 12/2/2019, 12:27 pm

OldShooter43 wrote:Would "One Shot" case lube work as well as the car wash & wax?  I'm assuming that the cases are stood on end when being sprayed.

Hello,

Yes; that's what I use.

Jim
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Post by OldShooter43 on 12/2/2019, 12:32 pm

Thanks, Jim

From another Jim :0)

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Post by WesG on 12/2/2019, 6:07 pm

Old green/yellow box Remington, and new Winchester. Not sure of the vintage of the Remington, but it was in with some 158gr that had a price tag of 9.98 from Gemco.

The Remington has a cannelure in the bullet lined up with the the one on the case. The Winchester appears to be cannelured after the bullet is seated.

I have some new Starline brass. A .356 pin, all it will accept, will go deep enough to just have room for the Rem bullet.

Rem on the left, Win on the right.

38 SP brass for wadcutters 38_hbw11

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Post by spursnguns on 12/3/2019, 10:50 am

WesG wrote:Old green/yellow box Remington, and new Winchester. Not sure of the vintage of the Remington, but it was in with some 158gr that had a price tag of 9.98 from Gemco.

Hello,

Gemco!  Oh my God....that's a name out of the past.  When I was a kid, I bought a shotgun at Gemco (without a box) and rode home on my bike with it strapped to the handle bars.  Different times.

Nonetheless, older Winchester wadcutter cases were cannelured before bullet seating and recent production is indeed cannelured afterward.

Jim
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