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Anyone Home At the NRA?

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Post by dieselguy624 on Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:38 am

So we have hosted an Indoor Sectional Championship match at our club York & Adams Game & Fish in Abbottstown PA for as long as I can remember.  Last year we got zero support from the NRA and used leftover and homemade copies of the registration forms.  no pins, medals nothing. According to the NRA (when they used to talk to us) it was the largest sectional in the US usually around 120+ shooters.  Of course they happily took our money.  We're trying to get set up for the 2020 match and again all we get from the NRA is crickets.  If this hasn't become the most dysfunctional organization I don't know what is.  Is anyone else in the same boat?

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Post by cdrt on Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:44 am

One of the other match directors told me he tried to register his Sectional online and that option was "grayed out" and not available.  I told him to call, since they were not returning his emails.  I have a feeling they are out of the sectional business. I am not running one in 2020, since they never sent the stuff for 2019.
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Post by zanemoseley on Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:46 am

They're probably more focused on their next fear mongering propaganda ad for Youtube instead of supporting actual competitive shooters.

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Post by Slartybartfast on Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:00 pm

zanemoseley wrote:They're probably more focused on their next fear mongering propaganda ad for Youtube instead of supporting actual competitive shooters.

I have this argument locally quite often. Here are organisations for firearms rights and legislative action and organisations for firearms competition.
Seems in the USA that the split from NRA to USAShooting happened at the Olympic level but failed to materialise at the local/regional level.
Here people complain htat the competition organisations are complicit with government anti-firearm actions and refuse to support them. But for me it's the opposite. Having a strong organisation that supports and fights for good local/regional competition within the framework of the law, however restrictive it may be, and a separate organisation for the defence of rights and freedoms means each can concentrate on specific goals and each purpose can remain strong. All while not sacrificing political capital by linking legislation combat with competition support.
NRA competitors should be asking what the budgets of the competition department are and what the revenues from competitions are.
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Post by zanemoseley on Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:27 pm

Slartybartfast wrote:

NRA competitors should be asking what the budgets of the competition department are and what the revenues from competitions are.

I might not want to see the numbers lol. I fear we're subsidizing their marketing with our entry fees.

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Post by dronning on Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:30 pm

zanemoseley wrote:
Slartybartfast wrote:

NRA competitors should be asking what the budgets of the competition department are and what the revenues from competitions are.

I might not want to see the numbers lol. I fear we're subsidizing their marketing with our entry fees.
Bullseye very rough guess,  I doubt there are 600 matches a year.

150 clubs X 4 matches/yr X 15 ave# of competitors X $7.00 NRA match fees = $63,000

ex National Matches
- Dave
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Post by Wobbley on Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:37 pm

Even if it was double that....

Compare the “Friends of NRA” events where the typical gross is $15000 and they net $5000. Ant there are extremes of 68000 gross and 36000 nets that are not unheard of. And those are single events. By comparison competitive shooting is small potatoes and Bullseye is very likely the smallest potato of all.
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Post by chopper on Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:46 pm

Dave, with those figures the NRA probably don't want to have much to do with shooting competition anymore. It probably doesn't cover the administrative cost to have an employee work on the recording and acknowledging our scores and awards at local matches. Here in Iowa our ISR&PA doesn't run the Iowa State Championships anymore. The NRA designated an Iowa 2nd Amendment Coalition (not sure of their name) to run them, account they take in more money  for the NRA than ISRPA. I don't know if or where we'll have those matches again, time will tell. I had to pay an extra $35 to this new organization to shoot the Iowa State Outdoor this summer and haven't received a membership card or any correspondance saying I'm a member. I'm ticked off about this move by the NRA, it really gives me a sour taste about the NRA as a total body for 2A, trying to be a sanctioning body for the shooting sports, and all the other programs, benefits, and programs they run. It's way too much to be run efficiently under one roof, kind of like taxes in the USA. Tax tax tax to get money to support a governing body.
 I'm done, I feel better now, like a good bowel movement.
 Stan

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Post by dronning on Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:21 pm

Wobbley wrote:Even if it was double that....

Compare the “Friends of NRA” events where the typical gross is $15000 and they net $5000. Ant there are extremes of 68000 gross and 36000 nets that are not unheard of.  And those are single events.  By comparison competitive shooting is small potatoes and Bullseye is very likely the smallest potato of all.
+1
In MN we have at least 4 Friends of NRA events each year.  1/2 of the money raised goes back to the State in the form of grants for things like Safety Classes, Range Services/Development (like Blue Sky barriers), Junior shooting programs, etc.... .  

MRRA, our State assoc., really works hard to take advantage of it "Since it's inception Friends of NRA has put more than $1,000,000 on the ground in MN".
- Dave
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Post by Slartybartfast on Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:50 am

chopper wrote:It probably doesn't cover the administrative cost to have an employee work on the recording and acknowledging our scores and awards at local matches.
If a small portion of what was spent on making the websites pretty was spent on a database driven backend it shouldn't take even a part-time employee to keep things going.
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Post by Colt711 on Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:13 am

Moving the National Championships to that hotbed of competitive shooting, Atterbury IN, should cure all the problems.
Ron Habegger


Last edited by Colt711 on Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correct omission of the name)

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Post by Slartybartfast on Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:09 am

Colt711 wrote:Moving the National Championships to that hotbed of competitive shooting, Atterbury IN, should cure all the problems.
Ron Habegger

When a sport is wildly popular, it can get by without much interest or support from national and international bodies in local events and development.

Rifle and air weapon sports seem to have healthy college level programs in the USA. But whether it's the NRA/Shooting USA, the ISSF, or here in Canada the SFC-FTC and many state/provincial organisations the only way to discover anything about precision firearms sports is to be already interested and pig-headed about finding somewhere to compete.

Lots of money spent at the top end on events and facilities will be wasted if local competitions dry up from lack of support.

Now correct me if I'm wrong. But can't anyone attend the National Championships? There is no cut off ranking? In Canada it certainly seems that the National matches are open to anyone with the minimum required equipment and the ability to get themselves to the competition.

IMO, the sport would be healthier with a limited National Championships and a more robust local league, regional events, and well run classification system than a great big nationals that will only dwindle year after year as the diehards move on.
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Post by valbern67 on Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:43 pm

chopper wrote:Dave, with those figures the NRA probably don't want to have much to do with shooting competition anymore. It probably doesn't cover the administrative cost to have an employee work on the recording and acknowledging our scores and awards at local matches. Here in Iowa our ISR&PA doesn't run the Iowa State Championships anymore. The NRA designated an Iowa 2nd Amendment Coalition (not sure of their name) to run them, account they take in more money  for the NRA than ISRPA. I don't know if or where we'll have those matches again, time will tell. I had to pay an extra $35 to this new organization to shoot the Iowa State Outdoor this summer and haven't received a membership card or any correspondance saying I'm a member. I'm ticked off about this move by the NRA, it really gives me a sour taste about the NRA as a total body for 2A, trying to be a sanctioning body for the shooting sports, and all the other programs, benefits, and programs they run. It's way too much to be run efficiently under one roof, kind of like taxes in the USA. Tax tax tax to get money to support a governing body.
 I'm done, I feel better now, like a good bowel movement.
 Stan

Chopper,

We're facing the same issues in NJ and have even came up with the idea of asking the NRA to give up sanctioning of Precision Pistol to another organization. It seems like that has already happened in Iowa? Can you give me any more details?

Thanks!

Valerie

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Post by chopper on Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:04 am

Yes Valerie, contact rreid he was head of our pistol department ISRPA. Ralph not only did that, he and others would run the State Championships beautifully without a hitch. I'm still a member of our state association and will continue to support it as a sanctioning body for our competitive shooters. Hopefully the NRA will see that there is a big difference between 2nd amendment rights and competitive shooting sports.
 Stan

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Post by PuddlePirate1985 on Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:00 pm

Sent email to Friends of NRA Regional Director for Pennsylvania area.  They sent me enough emails, let's see if we hear from them.
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Post by ted.carter.568 on Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:51 pm

As a former Pistol Committee member, and current Bullseye shooter, I submitted multiple proposed agenda items to both the Pistol Committee Chair and Committee Secretary for the upcoming meeting in November.  Many items had at its core "customer service" issues, exactly like the one that began this "Anyone Home at the NRA?" conversation.  If fact, I used the opening comment in my note to both Chair and Secretary. 

Of course Camp Atterbury was my top item to ask for a status on, as we've received none since the Competitors Meeting at the Natl Pistol Champs back in July.  I've recommended that Camp Atterbury information be disseminated via social media, and posted on a dedicated link to the NRA Competitions website.  November 4th is the next milestone date.  I'll pass whatever information I can.

As a Regional match director,  I was disappointed that NRA did not provide 2019 Regional Competitor pins at my Dixie Regional Champs, and possibly at many other Regional matches, if at all.  I've asked the Pistol Chair to confirm the status of the 2019 competitor pins, and also to confirm that Regional and Sectional awards will be distributed to match sponsors ahead of 2020 match start dates.

As many Bullseye shooters know, the lone staff person in Pistol is Beth, and she is working many issues as best she is able.  In Cole's defense, he has documented the staff shortfalls within Competitions.  I have passed on my concerns to a member of Finance Committee.  I hope to receive some positive information at the January NRA Board meeting. 

Ted Carter
NRA Board of Directors

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Post by Wobbley on Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:03 pm

Regarding Camp Atterbury, there was a posting on Facebook that no ground had been broken for the pistol ranges. It’s almost November. Will they be ready in July?
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Post by ted.carter.568 on Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:14 pm

Wobbley wrote:Regarding Camp Atterbury, there was a posting on Facebook that no ground had been broken for the pistol ranges.  It’s almost November.  Will they be ready in July?

According to the Camp Perry sked of events, presented at the Competitor's mtg, ground breaking wasn't sked to start until Nov 4th.

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Post by bruce martindale on Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:41 pm

We haven't even seen the 2019 Sectional results! It's practically November. Not holding my breath

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Post by ted.carter.568 on Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:14 pm

bruce martindale wrote:We haven't even seen the 2019 Sectional results! It's practically November. Not holding my breath
An administrative action concerning the 2019 Sectionals has prevented the release and posting of the results.  It may not be until late Jan or Feb.

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Post by Allen Barnett on Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:24 pm

Where on the NRA website can you find any sort of organizational chart?

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Post by Slartybartfast on Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:56 am

In defence of those working at the NRA, there are obviously some friendly and helpful people.
I found myself in the odd position of having an NRA dashboard without knowing my competitor number. Thing is you can sign up for one and not link your number (I hadn't competed yet so did not have one). But, once you have one there is no way to link the dashboard to it.
Some very simple transactions that should be able to be solved online that had to have people do changes for me.
Michele Kramer Manager, Tournament Operations, Competitive Shooting Division was very friendly and helpful and the IT people acted quickly.
It almost seems odd that that issue was dealt with so quickly yet day-to-day housekeeping activities for competitions seem to be so problematic.
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Post by Danehogle on Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:05 am

“ An administrative action concerning “the 2019 Sectionals has prevented the release and posting of the results.  It may not be until late Jan or Feb.”


The 2019 Sectionals are being Protested due to the “ re entry “ change that most never knew about. 
The protest should be heard by the protest committee in January. 
It seems the committee didn’t receive said protest from the competition department until last week. The protest was properly filed in February.  
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Post by james r chapman on Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:32 am

Geez, NRA Congress!!!!
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Post by Vociferous on Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:39 am

I'm beginning to suspect the NRA is trying to provoke a response. Let's see what happens with Atterbury.
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