Lead bullets allowed? CMP/EIC 45 Auto

I see the rules specify jacketed bullets only.  Rule 4.3.1  I also see lots of pet loads here for cast bullets.  When are they allowed and not allowed?

Generally, all CMP EIC matches require jacketed bullets except .22 lr
Generally NRA matches allow the use of jacketed OR lead for all matches.

james r chapman wrote:Generally, all CMP EIC matches require jacketed bullets except .22 lr
Generally NRA matches allow the use of jacketed OR lead for all matches.

Except, no Jacketed or plated for NRA DR.

Allgoodhits wrote:

james r chapman wrote:Generally, all CMP EIC matches require jacketed bullets except .22 lr
Generally NRA matches allow the use of jacketed OR lead for all matches.

Except, no Jacketed or plated for NRA DR.

That's debatable. The bullet must be 158gr and round nose or SWC. I have not found any 158gr RN or SWC in a jacketed bullet but there might be one. Plated are just shiny lead bullets and I have not found an accurate one.

Len

http://rulebooks.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/Pistol/pistol-book.pdf

DR Rule book page 11:
(e) Ammunition - Any safe .38 caliber ammunition using the 158 grain round nose or semi-wadcutter bullet only.


Atlanta Arms makes a 158gr jacketed round nose in .38sp that is legal for DR.

I still prefer their version in 158gr SWC lead for the crisp holes.

The CMP changed the rule for the Service Pistol EIC; plated bullets are now allowed along with jacketed.   They still require round nose jacketed ammo for the as-issued matches.

4.3.1 Pistol Ammunition
a) Service Pistol. Service Pistol competitors may use any safe ammunition that is loaded with metal-jacketed or metal-plated bullets. Non-jacketed, wad-cutter or lead bullets may not be used.
b) .22 Rimfire Pistol. Rimfire Pistol competitors may use only 22 cal. rimfire long rifle ammunition with bullets weighing not more than 40 grains.

The NRA made a verbal change for DR ammo at Camp Perry this year.  Jacketed 158 round nose or semi-wadcutters are now allowed.

adminbot1911 wrote:DR Rule book page 11:
(e) Ammunition - Any safe .38 caliber ammunition using the 158 grain round nose or semi-wadcutter bullet only.


Atlanta Arms makes a 158gr jacketed round nose in .38sp that is legal for DR.

I still prefer their version in 158gr SWC lead for the crisp holes.

Roger that, I have run that rule up the flag pole to two NRA Referees. More than one, has commented that the requirement for lead was unintentionally omitted. My reply was then it is not "in" the rules. Both of their comments were, it was "in" at any match they were referee. I would think that at a minimum, any variance from the most recent edition of written rules should be specifically spelled out in the Match Bulletin. Good luck with that one too.

In the meantime, just shoot!

cdrt wrote:The CMP changed the rule for the Service Pistol EIC; plated bullets are now allowed along with jacketed.   They still require round nose jacketed ammo for the as-issued matches.

4.3.1 Pistol Ammunition
a) Service Pistol. Service Pistol competitors may use any safe ammunition that is loaded with metal-jacketed or metal-plated bullets. Non-jacketed, wad-cutter or lead bullets may not be used.
b) .22 Rimfire Pistol. Rimfire Pistol competitors may use only 22 cal. rimfire long rifle ammunition with bullets weighing not more than 40 grains.

The NRA made a verbal change for DR ammo at Camp Perry this year.  Jacketed 158 round nose or semi-wadcutters are now allowed.

Was that a change in Rules for the National Matches in 2019, or a change across the board for NRA Precision Pistol Rules as they pertain to DR?Not sure but, that "verbal" change was probably due to an omission in the rule book requiring lead bullets for DR. Rather than admit the error, they proclaim a change to the rules. I wonder if referees outside of Camp Perry are aware of this rule change, if it was one? NRA Rules, still clear as mud since 1871!

OK, so for  " CMP Service Pistol EIC, long range pistol"  I must use 230 grain ball only?

Scota4570 wrote:OK, so for  " CMP Service Pistol EIC, long range pistol"  I must use 230 grain ball only?

4.3.1 Pistol Ammunition

"a) Service Pistol. Service Pistol competitors may use any safe ammunition that is loaded with metal-jacketed or metal-plated bullets. Non-jacketed, wad-cutter or lead bullets may not be used."

185gr JHP, 200gr SWC, 230gr ball are all legal.

cdrt wrote:


a) Service Pistol. Service Pistol competitors may use any safe ammunition that is loaded with metal-jacketed or metal-plated bullets. Non-jacketed, wad-cutter or lead bullets may not be used.

Lead is a metal.  I could dip a high antimony or tin bullet (higher melting point) in to pure liquid lead and be compliant.  Maybe it would also be compliant to roll a lead bullet in antisieze (heavy lead content).

This is what happens when engineers are caught up on their work.

Allgoodhits wrote:

cdrt wrote:The CMP changed the rule for the Service Pistol EIC; plated bullets are now allowed along with jacketed.   They still require round nose jacketed ammo for the as-issued matches.

4.3.1 Pistol Ammunition
a) Service Pistol. Service Pistol competitors may use any safe ammunition that is loaded with metal-jacketed or metal-plated bullets. Non-jacketed, wad-cutter or lead bullets may not be used.
b) .22 Rimfire Pistol. Rimfire Pistol competitors may use only 22 cal. rimfire long rifle ammunition with bullets weighing not more than 40 grains.

The NRA made a verbal change for DR ammo at Camp Perry this year.  Jacketed 158 round nose or semi-wadcutters are now allowed.

Was that a change in Rules for the National Matches in 2019, or a change across the board for NRA Precision Pistol Rules as they pertain to DR?Not sure but, that "verbal" change was probably due to an omission in the rule book requiring lead bullets for DR. Rather than admit the error, they proclaim a change to the rules. I wonder if referees outside of Camp Perry are aware of this rule change, if it was one? NRA Rules, still clear as mud since 1871!

Supposedly for Perry and all DR matches in the future.  I would hope they include their verbal change in next year's rule book, but I'm not holding my breath.

Scota4570 wrote:OK, so for  " CMP Service Pistol EIC, long range pistol"  I must use 230 grain ball only?

If you read my earlier post, the 230 grain jacketed bullet is required for the as-issued match shot during CMP Games matches, not the Service Pistol EIC.  You can download the Pistol Rule Book and the separate Games Rule Book on the CMP website.

Perry should be interesting in 2020