Has anyone shot a Nelson Conversion without a recoil buffer?

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Has anyone shot a Nelson Conversion without a recoil buffer? Empty Has anyone shot a Nelson Conversion without a recoil buffer?

Post by Sa-tevp on 11/9/2019, 10:06 pm

While cleaning my Nelson Conversion my recoil buffer fell apart. Is the recoil buffer a feel good part or is it vital for safe and reliable operation?
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Post by Jon Eulette on 11/9/2019, 10:12 pm

It just cushions impact of the slide from hitting the frame/barrel lug. Basically just like a Marvel. It is safe to operate but run the risk of potential slide battering; probably minor.
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Post by Sa-tevp on 11/9/2019, 10:39 pm

Thanks Jon.

I think I have a spare somewhere (Larry is fantastic to work with) but I couldn't help to compare the NCG to a S&W M41/Hammerli/Walther Olympia which doesn't use a buffer but does have a steel slide.
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Post by BHeintz on 11/10/2019, 11:00 pm

Do you happen to know how many rounds you have through your Nelson? I was just cleaning mine and was wondering how long the buffers last.

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Post by Sa-tevp on 11/11/2019, 5:45 am

BHeintz wrote:Do you happen to know how many rounds you have through your Nelson? I was just cleaning mine and was wondering how long the buffers last.

I'm guessing around 3000 over four years. The conversion is on a dedicated lower and I disassemble and clean when I get light strikes (carbon ring in the chamber or too much CCI SV munge) or if I will use it in a match. In my case I think the end the recoil spring snagged on the thin edge during reassembly.
 
Get the crown cut on lathe if you get a chance. Mine became really fun to shoot after the getting the crown cut.
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Post by bob finger on 11/11/2019, 3:25 pm

My opinion only...if you are shooting MiniMags I suspect the buffer will help reduce battering.  If shooting SV ammo I doubt there is much difference with or without.

The buffer life will greatly depend on how often you remove the recoil spring, as that is when they tend to split.  Buffer will still function if split for at leas a little while.

I pull mine apart every 5000 rounds for a good cleaning. If the buffer is still intact I don't worry about it.  If not I replace it.  Last time I got buffers from Larry I got I think 10 and still have 9 left in the bag.  Got them maybe 10,000 rounds ago....ain't a big deal.  I shoot it a LOT.  bob

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Post by 45ACP223 on 11/11/2019, 8:09 pm

Sa-tevp wrote:
BHeintz wrote:Do you happen to know how many rounds you have through your Nelson? I was just cleaning mine and was wondering how long the buffers last.

I'm guessing around 3000 over four years. The conversion is on a dedicated lower and I disassemble and clean when I get light strikes (carbon ring in the chamber or too much CCI SV munge) or if I will use it in a match. In my case I think the end the recoil spring snagged on the thin edge during reassembly.
 
Get the crown cut on lathe if you get a chance. Mine became really fun to shoot after the getting the crown cut.
Just curious, what is wrong with the crown from the factory?   What degree did you have your crown cut to?   Did you see an improvement on the 50 yd. line?
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Post by Sa-tevp on 11/11/2019, 8:46 pm

45ACP223 wrote:
Sa-tevp wrote:
BHeintz wrote:Do you happen to know how many rounds you have through your Nelson? I was just cleaning mine and was wondering how long the buffers last.

I'm guessing around 3000 over four years. The conversion is on a dedicated lower and I disassemble and clean when I get light strikes (carbon ring in the chamber or too much CCI SV munge) or if I will use it in a match. In my case I think the end the recoil spring snagged on the thin edge during reassembly.
 
Get the crown cut on lathe if you get a chance. Mine became really fun to shoot after the getting the crown cut.
Just curious, what is wrong with the crown from the factory?   What degree did you have your crown cut to?   Did you see an improvement on the 50 yd. line?

I had two Nelson conversions and both grouped like a Service Pistol 45 when shot offhand at 25 and 50 yards. Kinda neat to simulate 45 groups with 22 ammo but also not a lot of fun to shoot and scope. I had an opportunity to have both barrels get a 45 degree crown cut on a lathe and took advantage of it. After that my called shots were like my other 22s (Hammerli X-esse, S&W 41/Clark or Alex Hamilton reline barrels, FWB AW93) It was so much easier to call a shot and then see it as called in the spotting scope. I later sold one of the conversions to a friend after I bought a combo rib.

To be honest though, I don't think I had it out to 50 yards after the crown was touched up. Family things came up and I only get to practice indoors at 25 yards for now.
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Post by LenV on 11/11/2019, 9:06 pm

I should have sent my Nelson back. The groups just didn't match my 41 or HS groups. The groups still don't match those other pistols but something came up so I never did it. The thing that came up were my scores. That Nelson on a dedicated lower averages about 10 points higher then my other pistols. I like the 1911 platform. I suppose I should still send it back for another point or two but I'm in no hurry.
Has anyone shot a Nelson Conversion without a recoil buffer? Dscf1019

Has anyone shot a Nelson Conversion without a recoil buffer? Dscf1018
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Post by DA/SA on 11/11/2019, 9:30 pm

My Marvel right out of the box had the same problem as Len's! 50' foot target at 25 yds with CCI SV.

Has anyone shot a Nelson Conversion without a recoil buffer? HOuhFoBl

The flyers were all me.

I'm in no hurry to re-crown it.

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Post by rich.tullo on 11/11/2019, 10:03 pm

By far the most accurate Coversion I have ever shot was a 6 inch Marvel the test target was under .6 and it shot that. The Nelsons I shot were under 1.5 inches at 50 yards. 

I had Dave sames reline a Nelson which I buldged a barrel because I shot about 10,000 rounds between cleanings. It shot about 1.5 inches before and about .75 after. 

Re cutting the crowns on these conversions is generally a way to make them print better. As I shot 8x SF targets with both factory and the one I had relined I would argue they can run with any high priced euro gun on the long line even a Hammerli 208. 

Where I would give the Hammerli, the AW93, the GSG and others the edge is on the short line . They seem more shootable. But I have seen plenty of Masters clean the short line with the conversions and I cleaned a couple of times with my Nelsons.
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Post by 45ACP223 on 11/11/2019, 10:15 pm

Interesting, I wonder why the mfgs. don't cut a proper crown to start with?
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Post by Dr.Don on 11/12/2019, 9:46 am

I don't know how Nelson barrels are made.  But the cheap (fast) way to cut a crown is with a piloted cutter made for the purpose.  These are usually "okay" for general use.  A target barrel should be crowned in a lathe with the barrel carefully centered on a spud fitted to the lands.  That way the crown cut is dead centered to the bore.  This is labor intensive, i.e. expensive.  I think Jerry Keefer used to go even further, centering on the bore itself using the gaps between the lands.
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Post by Jon Eulette on 11/12/2019, 10:11 am

Nelson originally used a hand reamer that piloted off the bore to cut the crown. They now CNC cut the crown. Problem with that is they are not cut concentric with the bore. Barrels are just chucked up and not indicated off the bore. That's why many Nelsons shoot better after being recrowned.
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Post by 45ACP223 on 11/12/2019, 4:43 pm

Thanks Dr. Don & Jon for the explanation.  I guess Nelson's opted for a less labor intensive barrel crowning method, and accuracy has suffered as a result.   I'll keep re-crowning as an option if I have an accuracy issue with mine when it arrives.
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Post by Sa-tevp on 11/12/2019, 7:21 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Nelson originally used a hand reamer that piloted off the bore to cut the crown. They now CNC cut the crown. Problem with that is they are not cut concentric with the bore. Barrels are just chucked up and not indicated off the bore. That's why many Nelsons shoot better after being recrowned.
Jon

Jon, 

Thanks for putting all the pieces of the picture together. I was scratching my head trying to puzzle out how can several different observations be right at the same time.

Stephen
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Post by rich.tullo on 11/12/2019, 7:31 pm

Getting back on topic, the buffer is a must for practice or HV ammo. If you are running the fancy stuff like Lapua or SK removing the buffer may help a little with reliability.
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Post by 45ACP223 on 11/12/2019, 7:38 pm

Good to know, thanks Rich!
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