kimber for wadgun?

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Post by tg59ww on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 3:39 pm

looking to get a wadgun soon, saving up the funds for it now. If i can't find a used pistol from someone else, i'll have to look into getting a new project started. I currently have a SARO sent to Dave Salyer for my NM pistol and I'd probably send my next gun off to him as well. Here's my question: since i can get a Kimber Custom TLE II for less than a Springfield Range Officer, would that be a fine choice as a base for a wadgun? I'd want a new throated kart barrel and bushing installed and a trigger job. I am not particular about the finish. I like the front checkering, i like running something nobody else has and i might be able to sell the old barrel and night sights off this to offset the overall cost.

I've already searched through the forum and there seems to be mixed reviews on using kimber for bullseye. If I had the barrel and bushing completely replaced, is it still better to go with a range officer over this gun?

thanks in advance.

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Post by Wobbley on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 6:02 pm

You already have the gun you need. Shoot your Salyer-built gun for a year. Learn to shoot with that until you’re comfortable with it. The extra half pound in the trigger is meaningless.

Building on top of one of the “semi-customs” like Kimber or Les Baer can be exasperating for the next pistolsmith. When I was design Engineering, I often compared picking up someone else’s CAD model to “putting on somebody else’s underwear”. All kinds of nasties can come up and bite you in the tail without warning. I imagine a pistolsmith feels the same about working on anyone else’s guns.
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Post by radjag on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 6:53 pm

Ask Dave Salyer to drill and tap the slide for a rail, shorten a standard rail so that it will fit without removing the iron sights. If you really want to get serious ask him for a second sear spring set to 45 pull. I had Dave do a similar routine on a 1911 9mm earlier this year - works beautifully.

Ask Dave to test the gun with match ammo - my SARO sometimes has a FTE problem caused by the short Federal GMM 185 ammo (and also with 160gr LSWC reloads) - it is something to do with the slide stop catching the shorter bullets.

Buy an Ultradot 1". Choose some grippy grips and a bit of skateboard tape on the front and you and you are good to go.

As Wobbly recommends, shoot that till you get to Master level then consider your next move.

FWIW - I've had a couple of Kimber top models in the past and was not impressed - sold them on very fast.

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Post by straybrit on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 7:19 pm

I've got one that I use for bullseye, as a result of some very poor advice when I was starting out. Dave Salyer turned it into a tolerable gun - certainly far better than it was - and I've shot a couple of 855s with it once KC did his magic with the trigger at Perry a few years back - but it's replacement is certainly the next thing I buy. Probably an SARO with the attentions of Mr Salyer or Mr Eulette.

They look pretty - but something has to pay for all that marketing. I'd say that the SARO is a much better built device. YMMV.

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Post by 45ACP223 on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 9:02 pm

I don't see any reason why not to get the Kimber.  It's not stainless, it has a steel frame and slide so it should be fine for gunsmithing.  Most Kimbers I've fired are tight from the factory and have good lock up.  I'd do as you mentioned, trigger job, barrel, and bushing, or maybe just a trigger job, it has a match bushing from the factory. Your best advice is going to come from Dave or Jon, so I'd call them and see what they say.  They have seen it all.
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Post by rich.tullo on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 11:14 pm

Kimber is not ideal in most cases. They are nice guns but the frames losen up big time. The barrels are accurate but they are hard fit and after about 5000 rounds they go from 3 inches at 50 yards to about 6 inches. Most also have series 80 triggers which are not the best for wad guns. 

Having said that the Oregon guns are very nice. Also Len V may know more about them, but I think Kimber made a Series 70 special edition one year which I heard are spectacular.
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Post by rich.tullo on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 11:31 pm

If you are asking what is the best base gun for a wad gun, I say Springfield RO or an old Colt. Most RO will shoot well even with the facotory barrel if you just change the Bushing and go to an oversized slide stop. 

I also hear nothing but good things from Fusion guns if you are looking for a factory gun. If you have some coin and are not looking for a custom gun then try Rock River Arms or maybe the guys that make the Marvel. 

If you are looking for an inexpensive Wad Gun I would look for a Master at a match and ask them if they have an old wad gun, preferably you want a Giles, Clark, or Madore. I had a Madore that shot under 1.5 inches at 50 yards from a bench rest (a witnessed group) and the gun was built in 1995 on a Caspian frame and slide. 

If you have a Kimber target, Its a nice gun and will get you started it is just not a target 1911 and never will be.
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Post by 45ACP223 on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 11:45 pm

Thanks Rich for responding, I'm still learning after all these years.  I've always heard in this forum that Kimbers will never be a target 1911.  Can you explain why?  Tighten the frame, do a trigger job, put in a match barrel/bushing, these seem like normal bullseye gunsmithing  101.  You said the frames loosen up big time, are you talking about ss frames/barrel combos?   Why would the Custom TLE steel frames loosen up anymore than SA?  Is the steel used inferior, poor machining?  Cast vs. forged?  I'm just not understanding what the differences are that would create these issues.
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Post by LenV on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 12:44 am

" I think Kimber made a Series 70 special edition one year which I heard are spectacular."

They are.

kimber for wadgun? Dscf0418

kimber for wadgun? Dscf0835

But even their custom shop didn't get it 100%. I changed medium trigger out for a short and had to polish the sides of the feed ramp to shoot anything except ball. It worked perfectly most of the time. It only failed to feed during matches. Shocked  At least they were both easy fixes.
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Post by rich.tullo on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 8:53 pm

Prior to Accuracy X Stainless Steel was never a good choice for Bullseye owing to gaulling. 

1) The best trigger for BE is the series 70 trigger and Kimber are not series 70. 

2) Kimber is basically a factory gun and not fitted and because they are stainless the tolerances are not where they need to be. 

3) A good forged slide and frame makes the easiest base gun to accurize Colt and SA are forged. 

4) A BE gun needs to print over 30,000 rounds and  while Kimber makes a pretty gun I think you would be in a situation where you get work done and then need to re do it every 5000 to 10000 rounds. 

If you have one shoot it until you find a good wadcutter.
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Post by tg59ww on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 9:18 pm

lot of good information here, appreciate the responses. guess i'll skip the kimber option and probably shoot my hardball gun a little bit longer until i can find a used gun on here or send a range officer to dave salyer for The Magic Touch

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Post by 45ACP223 on Wed 13 Nov 2019, 4:11 pm

rich.tullo wrote:Prior to Accuracy X Stainless Steel was never a good choice for Bullseye owing to gaulling. 

1) The best trigger for BE is the series 70 trigger and Kimber are not series 70. 
Agree, but you can disable the firing pin block on the Kimber and some of their new models are 70 series.  Aegis and KHX.

2) Kimber is basically a factory gun and not fitted and because they are stainless the tolerances are not where they need to be. 
True, but the Kimber tg59ww was asking about the steel frame/slide model.

3) A good forged slide and frame makes the easiest base gun to accurize Colt and SA are forged. 
Agree

4) A BE gun needs to print over 30,000 rounds and  while Kimber makes a pretty gun I think you would be in a situation where you get work done and then need to re do it every 5000 to 10000 rounds. 
Agree if stainless, if steel, it should be the same.

If you have one shoot it until you find a good wadcutter.
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Post by zanemoseley on Fri 15 Nov 2019, 11:39 pm

Len's relentless posting of pistol pictures just made me the proud (hopefully) new owner of a Kimber Target Match. Let's see if I get along with it well enough to grab some distinguished points next year.

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Post by Tim:H11 on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 12:42 am

zanemoseley wrote:Len's relentless posting of pistol pictures just made me the proud (hopefully) new owner of a Kimber Target Match. Let's see if I get along with it well enough to grab some distinguished points next year.

You need to shoot TN State and Regional matches more. Short course and all! I scooped up most of my points there.
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Post by zanemoseley on Sat 16 Nov 2019, 12:57 am

Hey Jason, that's what I'm thinking, need to get working on distinguished.

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Post by 1joel1 on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 6:55 pm

My Kimber shoots very nicely thanks to a dot mount and trigger job by Jon Eulette!

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Post by LenV on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 8:48 pm

A couple of FYI's. 1. Zanemoseley found a different KTM. I still have mine. 2. There is no such thing as a series 80 Kimber (that's a Colt thing) 3. Kimber II's have a Mickey Mouse pin ,grip activated, that lets the hammer strike the firing pin. 
  Just keeping y'all informed.


http://sightm1911.com/lib/tech/Kimber_SII_FPB.htm


Shooting timed fire @25yds. I stopped before I could ruin it. Rolling Eyes The power of positive thinking.

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Post by LenV on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 12:45 am

My other Kimber ( I only have two) may be a rarer bird then the KTM pictured above. In my normal go against the flow I wanted something different. It turns out by accident I may have bought one of the most versatile 1911's Kimber made. The pistol was manufactured as a SS Gold Match II in 40 s&w. In 5 minutes it can be switched between 9mm, 38 Super 5", 38 Super 6", 357 Sig, 40 s&w and 10mm. All I have to do is change barrels, recoil springs and sometimes magazines. I consider it a wadgun even though I mostly shoot jacketed thru it.  I do have some nice 130 gr SWC and 147gr FP lead loads for it but it likes Zero 125gr best. This summer at the range I swapped the 6" 38 Super (Storm Lake) barrel for the $50.00 5" Sig barrel and fired 10 shots at the next target. Hmm, I also switch bushings when I swap barrels. I keep them together as sets. This is turning into a book. here are the pictures of the two targets. I'm leaving the 5" in the pistol.

kimber for wadgun? 38_sup10

kimber for wadgun? 38_sup11

kimber for wadgun? 20190230
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