Shot my first bullseye shoot tonight--- Help-- Smith 41 failure to eject

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Shot my first bullseye shoot tonight--- Help-- Smith 41 failure to eject Empty Shot my first bullseye shoot tonight--- Help-- Smith 41 failure to eject

Post by smsnyder on 11/11/2019, 8:29 pm

Targets were 50 feet indoors. 98% of guys using Rugers with red dots. 22 caliber shoot.  Rapid and slow fire. Most shooters over 65. About 18 shooters. I shot a 230 score. Horrible. My new Smith and Wesson model 41 failed to eject spent rounds about 8 times out of 50 rounds. I was using cci standard velocity ammo. I was using a 2moa  leupold delta point pro red dot. .  Any suggestions? One guy suggest I put a recoil buffer in. Due I need new upgraded shell extractor? I liked this game. Thanks


Last edited by smsnyder on 11/11/2019, 8:55 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by LenV on 11/11/2019, 8:38 pm

My 41 hates the cold. Buffer makes it worse. It's brand new. Shoot it a lot before doing anything else.
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Post by Ray Dash on 11/11/2019, 9:18 pm

May need a lighter recoil spring, worked wonders for my Ruger Mark IV.
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Post by Aprilian on 11/11/2019, 9:49 pm

New to you at new from factory?  Test 1) barrel off, does a live round drop into the chamber all the way with a satisfying “plunk”?   Test 2) try slightly higher velocity ammo and see if it behaves differently.   They are finicky until you find the unique way to make your pistol dependable.   Many people give up before figuring it out - plus some have poor build quality.  

Good luck!
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Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 11/11/2019, 10:16 pm

I'd try a Wolff gun spring calibration pak if you're short on patience.
It makes no sense to me to add a buffer to a gun that was not designed around one & having ejection problems already.,,,but first     try different ammo to break it in.
Match night is time to shoot matches, practice/training nights are the time to work out issues.
JMO
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Post by chopper on 11/11/2019, 11:10 pm

Try Ian's No.1 test, then take a round and place it under the extractor and lightly wave or shake and if the extractor retains it then look elsewhere.
 I like the point of extractor claw gripping on the rim next to the case side. You might have to file the claw a little if it's contacting the side of the case, it doesn't do any good there, it needs to hold the rim against the block so the ejector can knock it out the port.
 I think the plunk test will show up first, could be rough or dirty chamber, brush it out good and keep it clean. 
 Just my view, listen to the crowd.  Stan

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Post by smsnyder on 11/12/2019, 12:53 am

The gun is brand new from the factory.

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Post by CrankyThunder on 11/12/2019, 2:20 am

HI smsnyder, George here. 

Your 41, it is brand new?  

Do you have 500 rounds through it? 

I recommend that you send it back to smith and Wesson.  

If you do not want to do that, I will put forth a check procedure to get it running.  

First off,  see if a loaded round drops freely in and out of the chamber.  If the round sticks, polish the chamber until it falls in and out on its own accord.  

Then, with the barrel and slide removed,  see if there is any slop in the ejector/ slide stop.  If it is tight to the frame,  you are good.  If there is any free play side to side,  it is not hitting the brass good enough for a positive ejection.  

Next, replace the main spring with a new s @ w spring. 

Now, with the slide removed,  check the extractor.  Insert a loaded round under the extractor and shake slide from side to side.   If round falls, replace extractor and spring with a tandom cross replacement.  

That should get you running.  

Sincerely,  
George
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Post by Gustavo1957 on 11/12/2019, 6:08 am

I have a friend with a new PC 41 having some feeding problems with CCI SV and found putting a drop of oil on 1st round of loaded mag solves the problem. Might straighten out when you get 500 rds or more thru it.

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Post by adminbot1911 on 11/12/2019, 6:47 am

I used to teach navy midshipmen how to shoot for the first time using Model 41s in the range under the old gymnasium on campus.  I found them to be alibi machines.  25% were consistently in maintenance. Good luck


Last edited by adminbot1911 on 11/12/2019, 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by bruce martindale on 11/12/2019, 7:01 am

Oil ALL the shells with oily fingers as you load the magazine. Also try different shells. Mine would never work with Aguilla as they are on the large side. Good luck

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Post by mikemyers on 11/12/2019, 8:48 am

This worked very nicely in my Model 41 - precision machined...

https://volquartsen.com/departments/sw41_parts/inventory_configurations/883

Extraction became much more reliable.

Shot my first bullseye shoot tonight--- Help-- Smith 41 failure to eject 721-1567718286-sw41-extractor
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Post by Aprilian on 11/12/2019, 8:56 am

In my opinion, oiling any rounds is only masking the underlying problem.   What the oil does is allows the round to move out of the magazine and into the chamber using less energy than an unoiled round.  If it works, then it  is due to the pistol not having enough recoil energy to strip an unoiled round, chamber it and return to battery.   Figure out why it doesn't have enough energy (dirty chamber, tight chamber for that round diameter, pistol not broken in, wrong recoil spring weight for the energy of the round, etc).   As to sending it to S&W, read rimfire central posts on sending m-41's back.  Me, I'd not send it back to a company that shipped it non-functional.

Or as others have suggested, check the extractor, the Volquartsen is a much better design.

EDIT: see Len's description of the oil's function on next page.


Last edited by Aprilian on 11/19/2019, 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I Like Len's description)
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Post by radjag on 11/12/2019, 11:03 am

I hate to be a naysayer yet again, but if, at your first indoor Bullseye shoot, 90% of the other competitors were using Ruger 22's with red dots - that kind of tells it's own story.

It seems that many folks struggle to make 41's reliable and find the perfect match of ammo and gun adjustment. Buy a Ruger and it just shoots!

https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/product/35395/ruger+mark+iv+22%2f45+target+22lr+55%22+blue+10%2b1

Plus a Ruger rail:-
https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/product/42738/ruger+scope+base+mkiii+mkiv+22%2f45

My current favourite sight, but make sure it includes the low rise mount. You can find them even cheaper on eBay.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/product/6997/sig+sauer+electro-optics+sor52001+romeo5+1x+20mm+obj+unlimited+eye+relief+2+moa
Photoescape has shades, others are buying carbon fibre tubing for a cheaper fix, but if shooting indoors you probably don't need anything anyhow.

Any decent gunsmith can sort the trigger, or possibly buy a Volquartsen drop in trigger kit.

Then sell the 41.

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Post by smsnyder on 11/12/2019, 11:24 am

Heck I should just buy a Pardini pistol? LOL I watch one guy who was shooting a smith 41. He kept all the bullets in the the black. Heck my smith 41 with built in rail is $1400. It better work better. LOL

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Post by radjag on 11/12/2019, 11:34 am

Then your headache's will really start! Trust me, I'm there right now!

No, to be fair - the Pardini SP22 I bought just a few months ago has been dead reliable as far as function and accuracy, but beautiful, fully adjustable, triggers and myriad grip options bring their own burden of headaches.

The point about a Ruger is that it will just shoot! A mark 1 was my first 22 semi-auto back in my youth. I keep a Mk4 in the safe to use in case a beginner needs guidance.

Cheers and well done on getting through your first Bullseye shoot. My (previously 100% reliable) old  Walther GSP had numerous alibi's during my first Bullseye shoot back in March - reckoned to be caused by cool/damp weather - never had another problem thereafter up till I sold it on. Bullseye shoots are infested with gremlins!!

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Post by smsnyder on 11/12/2019, 11:47 am

Heck, my targets look like they were shot with a shotgun. LOL FUNNY

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Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 11/12/2019, 11:58 am

If you put three shooters together and ask a simple question you should expect a minimum of four "correct" opinions.

At the start of this adventure I feel it is most important that the gun feels right in your hand and that it works.

You have to start someplace & your 41 is a good start once you get past the first wrinkles.
I don't think I have ever been to a match where someone didn't try to get me to shoot their gun to prove that it was the "best".
Don't pass on any opportunity to try the other guys stuff...especially before you open your wallet.
I've spent more money on guns that should have been spent on ammo & range time.
Get it straight in your head at the beginning that any shot out of the center is most likely you.
Watch, learn, and take all advice with a grain of salt.

JMO
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Post by jglenn21 on 11/12/2019, 12:21 pm

Cci has a waxy lube.. try european rounds that use an oily style lube. I found my older 41 loved RWS ammo. Mainly Norma tac.  Give it a try.  Yes the volquartsen extrator us a better design mainly because it a bit shorter. All smith extractors are too long, a problem that was somewhat solved by bending it shorter.   The volquartsen can be very good if tuned properly by a smith to only touch the case rim..22 extractors mainly guide the round to the ejector after they are blown out of the chamber.

Plunk test to insure the chamber is not rough or clogged with carbon.  I always clean the chamber with a .25 cal. brush...

Try a different style ammo 

Use the volquartsen extractor

Follow a logical track to resolve the problem.

The 41 can be very reliable if properly  setup
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Post by Allen Barnett on 11/12/2019, 12:52 pm

Lots of good advice above.  This is only a small bump in the road.

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Post by smsnyder on 11/12/2019, 1:29 pm

Just stripped down my model 41. I greased the rails and than shot 10 rapid fire shots through it. Not one malfunction. I even put the recoil spring buffer in.

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Post by joem5636 on 11/13/2019, 6:38 am

A friend had a new 41 with a similar problem. I cleaned it of the heavy factory grease and lubed it with CLP -- worked perfectly.

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Post by bruce martindale on 11/14/2019, 4:55 pm

Oiling doesn't mask in my opinion...it keeps powder and lead residues wet as a grease instead if a hard crud that increases friction.

As Yoda taught, alibi you not!

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Post by mikemyers on 11/14/2019, 8:23 pm

A while back, when my 41 was doing the same thing as described here, I tried oiling the first round, and so on.  Sure made a mess inside the gun when I took it apart for cleaning.

The standard recoil sprig, and the Volquartsen extractor, and polishing the feed ramp, and having a gunsmith go through the gun adjusting as he saw fit, seems to have cured the problems   My 41 and my High Standard both seem to work at 98%, as I only had two alibi's at my last match, one due to not feeding, and the other due to a round the was hit, but didn't fire.
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Post by pgg on 11/18/2019, 5:31 am

I had some similar troubles with my S&W Model 41.

Upon examination with a borescope, my chamber was a little rough and had an area of pitting. A few seconds of polishing with this smoothed it out nicely and the problem was basically solved.

Brush Research 06380 Rifle Chamber Flex-Hone, Silicon Carbide, 400 Grit, For 0.17 Colt Cartridge/0.22 Magnum (Pack of 1)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DB8D1RW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00

I also swapped out the extractor for the Volquartsen part referenced earlier in this thread.

I still apply a small drop of very light oil (I use the thinnest Rem Oil) on the brass of the first round in the magazine.



My gun was also failing to feed, doing this to rounds in the magazine:

Shot my first bullseye shoot tonight--- Help-- Smith 41 failure to eject Sw41ma10


Which required smoothing and polishing a part of the gun which was very sharp from the factory:


Shot my first bullseye shoot tonight--- Help-- Smith 41 failure to eject Sw41po10

I only shoot CCI SV out of it. I'm a little annoyed that the above was necessary, but it's been flawless since then.

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