Red dot size.
Red dot size.
What size dot you guys using for 50 feet bullseye shooting?
smsnyder Posts : 332
Join date : 20190823
Re: Red dot size.
2moa , 4 moa, 6moa etc
Last edited by smsnyder on 12/15/2019, 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total
smsnyder Posts : 332
Join date : 20190823
Re: Red dot size.
How much area does each different size dot cover at 50 feet?
smsnyder Posts : 332
Join date : 20190823
Re: Red dot size.
There was a poll on here a while ago and a slight majority preferred the 4 moa.
A substantial minority had 2 moa.
A very small number of people were using something larger then 4 moa, like 10 % or less.
i asked Brian Zins personally what he used and he recommended 2 moa but said it really does not make much of a difference and I tend to agree with him.
Personally, I think that a 8 moa dot completely covers the black but if you figure out the moa of the black is considerably larger if you do the math.
I used to think that I wanted a 4 moa dot in the worst way, so much so that i got in a bidding war for a old 4 moa aimpoint h1 red dot. Now that i have the 4 moa aimpoint, it looks just about the same as my 2 moa microdots. Frankly, I just do not worry about it anymore.
Quite honestly, when you are holding the dot on the target and gently squeezing the trigger the way you have done it fifteen million times dry firing, your subconcious takes over and either the dot jumps to the center of the black when the gun goes off or the gun goes off when the dot is in the center of the bull. Its magical when it happens.
Regards,
Crankster
A substantial minority had 2 moa.
A very small number of people were using something larger then 4 moa, like 10 % or less.
i asked Brian Zins personally what he used and he recommended 2 moa but said it really does not make much of a difference and I tend to agree with him.
Personally, I think that a 8 moa dot completely covers the black but if you figure out the moa of the black is considerably larger if you do the math.
I used to think that I wanted a 4 moa dot in the worst way, so much so that i got in a bidding war for a old 4 moa aimpoint h1 red dot. Now that i have the 4 moa aimpoint, it looks just about the same as my 2 moa microdots. Frankly, I just do not worry about it anymore.
Quite honestly, when you are holding the dot on the target and gently squeezing the trigger the way you have done it fifteen million times dry firing, your subconcious takes over and either the dot jumps to the center of the black when the gun goes off or the gun goes off when the dot is in the center of the bull. Its magical when it happens.
Regards,
Crankster
Re: Red dot size.
My personal experience is the smaller the dot the more perceived movement or wobble. The larger, less movement. YMMV. I prefer 4 moa. I have a 2 moa. I just turn the brightness up and it appears to be a 4 moa.
Bill
Bill
messenger Posts : 508
Join date : 20110618
Location : North Carolina
Re: Red dot size.
1MOA is 1.047" at 100 yards.smsnyder wrote:How much area does each different size dot cover at 50 feet?
DA/SA Posts : 434
Join date : 20171009
Location : Southeast Florida
Re: Red dot size.
Well, at 100 yards a 1 moa dot would cover 1 inch (+/)smsnyder wrote:How much area does each different size dot cover at 50 feet?
At 25 yards a 1 moa dot would cover 1/4 inch.
A 2 moa dot at 25 yards would cover 1/2 inch and a 4 MOA dot would cover 1 inch.
To my eyeball a 6 or 8 MOA dot just about covers the black but the math does not work out.
Crankster
Re: Red dot size.
I use a 3 moa at 50 ft and seems to work fine. My sense is that a 4 moa would work just as well.
hg401 Posts : 8
Join date : 20180219
Re: Red dot size.
all serious manufacturers make at least 2 red dot sizes: 24 for target shooting and 68 for larger caliber rapid fire
MarkVII Posts : 8
Join date : 20191101
Re: Red dot size.
Another factor to consider when comparing dot scopes without actually seeing them is the different sizes of the same size dot!
Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot...
Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot...
DA/SA Posts : 434
Join date : 20171009
Location : Southeast Florida
Re: Red dot size.
+1DA/SA wrote:Another factor to consider when comparing dot scopes without actually seeing them is the different sizes of the same size dot!
Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot...
LenV Posts : 3905
Join date : 20140124
Age : 69
Location : Oregon
Re: Red dot size.
DA/SA wrote:Another factor to consider when comparing dot scopes without actually seeing them is the different sizes of the same size dot!
Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot...
Are they using the same distance for their MOA measurement? The dot size itself is fixed, as is it's position, so the same size dot that covers 4 MOA at 50 yards will cover (approximately) 2 MOA at 100 yards.
hg401 Posts : 8
Join date : 20180219
Re: Red dot size.
That's actually wrong two different ways. If you know that MOA stands for minute of angle then you know if a dot covers 4 moa at 50 yds it covers 4 moa at 100, 2000 etc. If you think of it like a lot of people do as 1 moa equals 1" at 100 yds (not exact but close enough for pistol) then you know a dot that covers 2" at 50 yds would cover 4" at 100 etc. The dot size doesn't change but the target gets smaller further away. Using 1" as being close enough for pistol a 4 MOA dot covers about 2" at 50 yds and 1" at 25 yds. A great big 8 MOA would cover the 10 ring at 50 and the X ring at 25. Which means at our distances any dot you choose is a matter of choice. 216 would work.hg401 wrote:DA/SA wrote:Another factor to consider when comparing dot scopes without actually seeing them is the different sizes of the same size dot!
Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot...
Are they using the same distance for their MOA measurement? The dot size itself is fixed, as is it's position, so the same size dot that covers 4 MOA at 50 yards will cover (approximately) 2 MOA at 100 yards.
LenV Posts : 3905
Join date : 20140124
Age : 69
Location : Oregon
Re: Red dot size.
DA/SA wrote:Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually appears to be half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot at the same distance..
Best to look at dot sights for comparison to see what it is you like as the numbers can be misleading.
There, clarified it.
I hate written communication...
(It couldn't take more than a couple days in Oregon to look through and compare them all! )
DA/SA Posts : 434
Join date : 20171009
Location : Southeast Florida
Re: Red dot size.
DA/SA  Fortunately, I'm not in Oregon at the moment! But no doubt, your intended target, Len V., will step in with an exhaustive comparison shortly
FWIW  from what I've perceived, the other issue is brightness  and the relative brightness of dot and ambient light. I initially acquired, on a gun I bought, a Matchdot with the dial to change dot size  experimented with all sizes  then opted to buy standard 1" Ultradot's with nominally 4moa dots, but, to my eyes at least, the dot size increases significantly as I increase the brightness (e.g. in bright sunlight). I've recently been experimenting with 2moa SIG sights and, so far, I'm quite happy with them too.
I guess it all depends what you get used to and comfortable with.
But, I do agree with the other posters, bigger than 4moa does not work well.
FWIW  from what I've perceived, the other issue is brightness  and the relative brightness of dot and ambient light. I initially acquired, on a gun I bought, a Matchdot with the dial to change dot size  experimented with all sizes  then opted to buy standard 1" Ultradot's with nominally 4moa dots, but, to my eyes at least, the dot size increases significantly as I increase the brightness (e.g. in bright sunlight). I've recently been experimenting with 2moa SIG sights and, so far, I'm quite happy with them too.
I guess it all depends what you get used to and comfortable with.
But, I do agree with the other posters, bigger than 4moa does not work well.
radjag Posts : 318
Join date : 20170323
Age : 64
Location : Oregon
Re: Red dot size.
LenV wrote:That's actually wrong two different ways. If you know that MOA stands for minute of angle then you know if a dot covers 4 moa at 50 yds it covers 4 moa at 100, 2000 etc. If you think of it like a lot of people do as 1 moa equals 1" at 100 yds (not exact but close enough for pistol) then you know a dot that covers 2" at 50 yds would cover 4" at 100 etc. The dot size doesn't change but the target gets smaller further away. Using 1" as being close enough for pistol a 4 MOA dot covers about 2" at 50 yds and 1" at 25 yds. A great big 8 MOA would cover the 10 ring at 50 and the X ring at 25. Which means at our distances any dot you choose is a matter of choice. 216 would work.hg401 wrote:DA/SA wrote:Another factor to consider when comparing dot scopes without actually seeing them is the different sizes of the same size dot!
Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot...
Are they using the same distance for their MOA measurement? The dot size itself is fixed, as is it's position, so the same size dot that covers 4 MOA at 50 yards will cover (approximately) 2 MOA at 100 yards.
You're right. I forgot that even though the actual diameter of a given MOA increases with distance, it's apparent size relative to the fixed position dot also gets smaller with increased distance.
hg401 Posts : 8
Join date : 20180219
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