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Red dot size.

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Wobbley
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Red dot size. Empty Red dot size.

Post by smsnyder 12/15/2019, 11:23 am

What size dot you guys using for 50 feet bullseye shooting?

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Post by smsnyder 12/15/2019, 11:27 am

2moa , 4 moa, 6moa etc


Last edited by smsnyder on 12/15/2019, 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by smsnyder 12/15/2019, 11:38 am

How much area does each different size dot cover at 50 feet?

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Post by CrankyThunder 12/15/2019, 12:04 pm

There was a poll on here a while ago and a slight majority preferred the 4 moa.  
A substantial minority had 2 moa.  

A very small number of people were using something larger then 4 moa, like 10 % or less.  

i asked Brian Zins personally what he used and he recommended 2 moa but said it really does not make much of a difference and I tend to agree with him.  

Personally, I think that a 8 moa dot completely covers the black but if you figure out the moa of the black is considerably larger if you do the math. 

I used to think that I wanted a 4 moa dot in the worst way, so much so that i got in a bidding war for a old 4 moa aimpoint h1 red dot.  Now that i have the 4 moa aimpoint, it looks just about the same as my 2 moa microdots. Frankly, I just do not worry about it anymore.  

Quite honestly, when you are holding the dot on the target and gently squeezing the trigger the way you have done it fifteen million times dry firing, your subconcious takes over and either the dot jumps to the center of the black when the gun goes off or the gun goes off when the dot is in the center of the bull.  Its magical when it happens. 

Regards, 
Crankster
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Post by smsnyder 12/15/2019, 12:09 pm

Crankster good answer.

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Post by messenger 12/15/2019, 12:13 pm

My personal experience is the smaller the dot the more perceived  movement or wobble. The larger, less movement. YMMV. I prefer 4 moa. I have a 2 moa. I just turn the brightness up and it appears to be a 4 moa.

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Post by DA/SA 12/15/2019, 12:30 pm

smsnyder wrote:How much area does each different size dot cover at 50 feet?
1MOA is 1.047" at 100 yards.
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Post by CrankyThunder 12/15/2019, 1:45 pm

smsnyder wrote:How much area does each different size dot cover at 50 feet?
Well, at 100 yards a 1 moa dot would cover 1 inch (+/-)

At 25 yards a 1 moa dot would cover 1/4 inch.  

A 2 moa dot at 25 yards would cover 1/2 inch and a 4 MOA dot would cover 1 inch.  

To my eyeball a 6 or 8 MOA dot just about covers the black but the math does not work out.  

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Post by hg401 12/28/2019, 9:13 am

I use a 3 moa at 50 ft and seems to work fine.  My sense is that a 4 moa would work just as well.

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Post by MarkVII 12/31/2019, 1:13 pm

all serious manufacturers make at least 2 red dot sizes: 2-4 for target shooting and 6-8 for larger caliber rapid fire

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Post by DA/SA 12/31/2019, 1:51 pm

Another factor to consider when comparing dot scopes without actually seeing them is the different sizes of the same size dot!

Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot...
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Post by LenV 12/31/2019, 1:54 pm

DA/SA wrote:Another factor to consider when comparing dot scopes without actually seeing them is the different sizes of the same size dot!

Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot...
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Post by hg401 12/31/2019, 6:33 pm

DA/SA wrote:Another factor to consider when comparing dot scopes without actually seeing them is the different sizes of the same size dot!

Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot...

Are they using the same distance for their MOA measurement?  The dot size itself is fixed, as is it's position, so the same size dot that covers 4 MOA at 50 yards will cover (approximately) 2 MOA at 100 yards.

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Post by LenV 12/31/2019, 7:56 pm

hg401 wrote:
DA/SA wrote:Another factor to consider when comparing dot scopes without actually seeing them is the different sizes of the same size dot!

Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot...

Are they using the same distance for their MOA measurement?  The dot size itself is fixed, as is it's position, so the same size dot that covers 4 MOA at 50 yards will cover (approximately) 2 MOA at 100 yards.
That's actually wrong two different ways. If you know that MOA stands for minute of angle then you know if a dot covers 4 moa at 50 yds it covers 4 moa at 100, 2000 etc. If you think of it like a lot of people do as 1 moa equals 1" at 100 yds (not exact but close enough for pistol) then you know a dot that covers 2" at 50 yds would cover 4" at 100 etc.  The dot size doesn't change but the target gets smaller further away. Using 1" as being close enough for pistol a 4 MOA dot covers about 2" at 50 yds and 1" at 25 yds. A great big 8 MOA would cover the 10 ring at 50 and the X ring at 25. Which means at our distances any dot you choose is a matter of choice. 2-16 would work.
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Post by DA/SA 12/31/2019, 8:52 pm

DA/SA wrote:Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually appears to be half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot at the same distance..

Best to look at dot sights for comparison to see what it is you like as the numbers can be misleading.

There, clarified it.  Wink

I hate written communication...

(It couldn't take more than a couple days in Oregon to look through and compare them all! Smile )
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Post by radjag 1/1/2020, 1:42 am

DA/SA - Fortunately, I'm not in Oregon at the moment! But no doubt, your intended target, Len V., will step in with an exhaustive comparison shortly lol!

FWIW - from what I've perceived, the other issue is brightness - and the relative brightness of dot and ambient light. I initially acquired, on a gun I bought, a Matchdot with the dial to change dot size - experimented with all sizes - then opted to buy standard 1" Ultradot's with nominally 4moa dots, but, to my eyes at least, the dot size increases significantly as I increase the brightness (e.g. in bright sunlight). I've recently been experimenting with 2moa SIG sights and, so far, I'm quite happy with them too.

I guess it all depends what you get used to and comfortable with.

But, I do agree with the other posters, bigger than 4moa does not work well.

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Post by hg401 1/1/2020, 10:12 am

LenV wrote:
hg401 wrote:
DA/SA wrote:Another factor to consider when comparing dot scopes without actually seeing them is the different sizes of the same size dot!

Ultradot states 4 MOA while Sightron claims a 5 MOA dot, but Sightron's actually half the size of the Ultradot 4MOA dot...

Are they using the same distance for their MOA measurement?  The dot size itself is fixed, as is it's position, so the same size dot that covers 4 MOA at 50 yards will cover (approximately) 2 MOA at 100 yards.
That's actually wrong two different ways. If you know that MOA stands for minute of angle then you know if a dot covers 4 moa at 50 yds it covers 4 moa at 100, 2000 etc. If you think of it like a lot of people do as 1 moa equals 1" at 100 yds (not exact but close enough for pistol) then you know a dot that covers 2" at 50 yds would cover 4" at 100 etc.  The dot size doesn't change but the target gets smaller further away. Using 1" as being close enough for pistol a 4 MOA dot covers about 2" at 50 yds and 1" at 25 yds. A great big 8 MOA would cover the 10 ring at 50 and the X ring at 25. Which means at our distances any dot you choose is a matter of choice. 2-16 would work.

You're right.  I forgot that even though the actual diameter of a given MOA increases with distance, it's apparent size relative to the fixed position dot also gets smaller with increased distance.

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Post by mikemargolis 12/6/2020, 7:49 pm

I am not smart enough to calculate MOA or even know what the heck it means.

I had a lesson from a Master last week, and he suggested that I increase the size of my red dot. Right now, I have the dot set on the smallest setting, he wants me to try increasing it to be the second largest of four settings.

His reasoning:

With a tiny dot in the middle of the bullseye, I might be trying too hard to get the perfect shot. With a dot nearly the size of the entire black ring (at 50 feet anyway), I might relax a bit and take the shot instead of trying to get it perfect in the middle.

Thoughts?

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Post by REConley 12/6/2020, 8:01 pm

I would agree. I shoot about 15 points better on a 30 round series of RF at 50 feet with a 4 MOA verses a 2 MOA. In addition, I feel like the 2 MOA is so small I am always straining to see it rather than focusing of the target.
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Post by BHeintz 12/6/2020, 8:18 pm

I used 4moa for about ten years, then finally tried 2moa. I like the 2moa much more. I shoot a lot at 50ft and would say the 2moa on my red dot only covers about the 10 ring. I have also tried bigger dots and did not like it, I still shot ok but but it's not something I would choose.  I think this is something you have to try out for yourself. And as others have stated, two different sopes that are both supposed to be the same size dot, might not look the same.

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Post by Wobbley 12/6/2020, 10:22 pm

My dots are “2MOA” and I find that if the dot is well within the ten ring at 25 yards ( like closer to the X line than the 10 line) I will get a solid 10 and more often an X.  With a larger dot you’d lose that definition, but the principle is the same.  When the big dot is within the black, it is really hovering over the area between the X and 10 lines.  It just looks easier, and it may be easier to recognize.
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Post by Slamfire 12/9/2020, 6:44 pm

Been using the same 4 MOA Ultradot on 50 foot 22 lr Bullseye as I do 50 yard 2700. Works fine. The dot size is such that I can tell if I am upper, middle, lower part of the black. Does not mean the bullet goes there when I jerk the trigger!.

My greatest source of error is the flinch. Call it follow through. Dot size is in the noise level compared to the flinch.

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Post by mpolans 12/10/2020, 12:39 am

Lately, I've been using a red dot with a 5 moa dot. I've found that having a very well-defined dot helps me more. I've got a another scope with a 2moa dot, but it's not as well-defined and tends to flare out vertically, making it harder for me to aim accurately.

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Post by chopper 12/10/2020, 8:21 am

If I am shooting outside 25 and 50 yards, I'll have to use the polarizing filter to see the 2 dot. If the sun is brightly shining, I might use it on the 4 dot size. 
 I find on very cloudy days, I'll use yellow or vermilion tinted flip-ups, they make the contrast of bull more defined.
 I like the UltraDot 4 dot setting most of the time. The AimPoint 9000 4 dot appears like a UD 2 dot to me.
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Post by Allen Barnett 12/10/2020, 8:40 am

I have Ultra Dot Match Dot II's with the adjustable dot size of 2, 4. 6, and 8 MOA.  I prefer the 8 MOA setting as it DOES NOT completely cover the black at 50 yds, 25 yds or 50 ft.  It is kind of like shooting a double aperture on a smallbore rifle.  If the dot is at least covering half of the black when the shot breaks you will at least be in the black.  I know there are a couple of Master and High Master shooters on here that have in the past stated they also prefered the larger dot sizes.  There is no perfect size that is going to suddenly make you a better shooter that must be developed and that is part of the trip we enjoy and what drives us in our own way to become a better shooter.

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