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Post by smsnyder on 12/24/2019, 1:23 pm

Looking to buy a pardini 22 caliber LR pistol..Must he late model. Any out there. Thanks

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Post by james r chapman on 12/24/2019, 7:48 pm

What happened to the greatest .22 of them all?
Collecting .22’s?
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Post by smsnyder on 12/25/2019, 7:28 am

Yep trying them all. LOL

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Post by zanemoseley on 12/25/2019, 9:12 am

You can never have too many 22's, that's a fact.

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Post by gregbenner on 12/25/2019, 11:30 am

zanemoseley wrote:You can never have too many 22's, that's a fact.
+1

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Post by straybrit on 12/25/2019, 1:00 pm

22's are like bad habits. As you get older you acquire more of them. It's natural - don't stress over it.

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Post by mhayford45 on 12/27/2019, 1:16 pm

Mine may be available later in 2020 if you have not found one. I have a Volquartsen Scorpion on order and if that works out I will sell my 2015 Pardini BE model.

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Post by Jwhelan939 on 12/27/2019, 7:10 pm

mhayford45 wrote:Mine may be available later in 2020 if you have not found one. I have a Volquartsen Scorpion on order and if that works out I will sell my 2015 Pardini BE model.
Damn, I love my Scorpion. It's an awesome pistol. But I would have traded for your Pardini!!

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Post by mhayford45 on 12/28/2019, 9:26 am

I really like the Ruger design, natural feel and it is the only .22 that I have raised that the sights line up perfectly. Volquartsen makes all the negatives of a Ruger into a positive.

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Post by JAFabanich on 12/28/2019, 5:51 pm

I have one, call me at 208.360.0704

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Post by Tripscape on 12/28/2019, 10:50 pm

I am not affiliated in any way, just saw the listing.  This is a great deal and personally I think it's cheap for the apparent condition. 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/850884776

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Post by mikemyers on 12/29/2019, 2:45 am

Seems to me, after looking at that Pardini page, there are SO many things one can customize, that also means there are SO many things that can prevent it from working at its best.  Unless someone has had and used a Pardini for a long time, and is already an experienced Bullseye Shooter, to my way of thinking it would just be a struggle, unless/until one has unlimited time, and hopefully a friend who knows the gun, before it's configured properly.

Maybe it's like buying a camera - if you buy what people consider "the best", and you're not an experienced photographer who already understand those things, you will not get very good photos unless you put it in AUTO mode, and if you're going to use AUTO mode there's no justification for buying that super-complex camera.  If you spend $7,500 to $8,000 for a new Leica, and another $3,000 or so for a lens, you probably won't get phots nearly as nice as if you bought a much less expensive Nikon, Canon, or Sony pocket camera.   .........and it would take many months, or years, to get the most out of that Leica.


What is it you don't like with the .22 gun(s) you already have, that makes you want a Pardini?  If you just want something to show off at the range, you'll certainly accomplish that, but why do you think you will get better scores than if you use the guns you already have?

(.....and if the guns you already have don't work reliably, it will cost you far less to have a competent gunsmith make them right.)

..........just my opinion..........

If you've still got a Model 41, let a gunsmith set it right.
If you've got a Ruger, I read they just work, no adjustments needed.
If you've got a Volquartsen with issues, call their tech support people.

When you have time, watch this video.  It emphasizes what most people say in this forum, and makes it very clear.  Until you can do as this fellow suggests, it makes no difference what .22 you use, or how well you can see the front sight or the red dot.  All of that is meaningless until you can do this correctly:
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Post by radjag on 12/29/2019, 9:41 am

Dear Mike. Hmmmm. Some good points, but I can't agree with your opinion on several things.

As for the "myriad" of options on a Pardini, I think that you have over-complicated things. For Bullseye competition Pardini produce a specific model - OK, there is a choice of barrel length, but almost all folks on the forum recommend 5", unless you are already very serious and are aiming for High Master or have some very specific need. There is a choice of grip size and each grip has an adjustable palm shelf - I believe that it is possible to "exchange" for a different size if you discover you bought the wrong size. The trigger "shoe" can be readily adjusted in 3 dimensions to suit preference - easy. The trigger pull can be adjusted over a wide range of settings, but AFAIK, if you buy direct from Pardini USA you can talk with their technician and have him adjust it for you, or even have him set it to his recommendation - probably best if not experienced. Yes - further adjustment and refining of the pull is quite tricky - I have found that difficult - but Pardini USA will talk you through the adjustment process over the phone, or you can send it to them once you think you know exactly what you want. The other options and adjustments are all for someone who has already reached a pretty high standard and is able to judge how very small changes might give incremental improvements.

I don't quite agree with your analogy to Consumer:Pro cameras. Assuming that you get a gun with roughly the correct grip size and the trigger is already adjusted to "standard" Bullseye 2 stage setting, I would say that any shooter below Master level could almost immediately improve his scores over any of the lower end guns. Would the improvement be any better than tuning/customising your existing gun or, more critically, spending a lot more time on the range or dry firing, that is hard to say.

Is the Pardini the "be and end all" - No! Some folks do suffer problems, I indeed have struggled with the trigger on my HP32 and am still fiddling with grips, I met a guy just recently who was having frequent FTE's. But, I've also met and heard of many others who swear by them.

Why buy one? Well, if you are just enjoying the Bullseye game and don't have very high expectations, or you are financially constrained (nothing wrong with either of those), then a mildly customised Ruger (or a 41, or any number of other very nice guns) are more than capable of shooting at least Master level scores in the right hands. But, if you are not financially constrained and you want to try to achieve the best that you can, then I believe that a Pardini (or a 208S, MG2, and a few others) will offer you the greatest potential.

I definitely prefer the Pardini over the older GSP it replaced and it has been my primary Bullseye gun since I got it and expect that to continue. I've not yet been able to conduct an objective comparison with my MG2 - that will be interesting! But then, against all of that, I do have a Mk4 Ruger in the safe and I've just bought a nice Marvel/Caspian off this Forum to play with. I'm keeping an open mind!

As for the OP on this thread - no disrespect - but OP has openly disclosed his passion for buying many different "greatest ever" guns (nothing wrong with that - I went through that phase too) and it therefore appears that he is not financially constrained. IMHO, best advice to the OP is to order an SP 5" from Pardini USA, talk to them at length and get the right size grip and the trigger set to "standard". Then practise with it a LOT - I have no doubt that it will exceed your expectations and, assuming that your technique is sound, you will quickly over-take the old Ruger's in your club.

One caveat - the "steep" grips on most of the new Euro guns are very different from a "1911" style grip. That is a big issue. You need to try one of the Euro guns first to see whether your hand/wrist can physically handle the grip position. Rink make "upright" "GSP style" replacement grips for Pardini's - that is what I've now got on mine.

Cheers,

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Post by mikemyers on 12/29/2019, 10:20 am

radjag wrote:........I don't quite agree with your analogy to Consumer:Pro cameras. Assuming that you get a gun with roughly the correct grip size and the trigger is already adjusted to "standard" Bullseye 2 stage setting, I would say that any shooter below Master level could almost immediately improve his scores over any of the lower end guns......
I know nothing about Pardini - not sure I've ever seen one.  I did go to the link posted up above, and if I read it correctly, in addition to the things you mentioned, the gun can be set up in many ways, including "Fully Adjustable Two Stage Trigger", "Multi-Function Counter Weight System", and that it comes with six weights.  (Between what you mentioned and what I read made me think of a professional DSLR camera.)

For someone who isn't that great a shooter, to me, too many ways to adjust a gun means too many ways to mess things up.  Other guns, like my revolvers, you just adjust the sights, and shoot, followed by cleaning.  That's comparable to a "point and shoot" camera.

I'm not all that great, and I'm not all that experienced, and for me, too many variables are not helpful, maybe they're the opposite.

You wrote "I would say that any shooter below Master level could almost immediately improve his scores over any of the lower end guns."
I used to think that, but not any more, especially so before several people here helped me so much.  None of my problems was "the gun".  All of them were to be found twelve inches behind the gun.  ....which is why I posted the video.  

You wrote "But, if you are not financially constrained and you want to try to achieve the best that you can, then I believe that a Pardini (or a 208S, MG2, and a few others) will offer you the greatest potential."
Again, I used to think that, but not any more.  It all depends on the shooter's ability.  If he's already very talented, then sure, a better gun will help.  But if not, I don't think it would make any difference.  Or to put it another way, if instead of shooting my 1970's model 41 or my old High Standard, someone loaned me a Pardini, I expect I would get the same scores I get now.  

If I were already competing at a high level (wishful thinking), then sure.  At that point the gun would maybe make a difference for me.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe if I were to buy a Pardini tomorrow, I'd find out you were correct, and I'd suddenly be shooting much higher scores, but I wouldn't expect that.  No way to tell, without the opportunity to buy or borrow one.  I'll try to do that at the next match I go to.  There's one of the fellows who I shoot with who is shooting a gun that "looks" like the Pardini.  If he lets me, I'll try it and see if it makes any difference.  When 'CR10X' writes me to say that a "better" gun might help me, I'll pay attention, but that's years away, if ever.

Thanks......

And to the OP, if you're doing this for fun, not for competition, and you have the $$$, why not get every gun you have a fancy for.  I guess maybe I shouldn't have written anything up above.  Enjoy yourself.  I'll go back to waiting for my new (very old) High Standard to arrive.  Do I "need it"?  Nope.  Do I want it?  Yep.  Will it make any difference to my scores?  Unlikely, although if it's reliable, that alone will raise my scores.....   but so would a Ruger.
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Post by James Hensler on 12/29/2019, 10:34 am

I used to shoot a SW 22! 300 bucks and I installed a older used Ultra Dot. Shot it for 2 years and my scores were within a few points (840’s) every match! Now to my Pardini!  Without doing anything except sighting the Red Dot my score instantly went to the mid 860’s. After several months shooting it just like that I played with the trigger and bam now 875-880’s in practice! I haven’t shot that high in a match yet ( someone crossed fired on my target my last 3 matches) because of outside things happening! 

I love this Pardini! I think people are over thinking things here!!
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Post by smsnyder on 12/29/2019, 10:45 am

I end guns often make no difference. I use to shoot ata trap. Shot over 200,000 targets. Over 100,000 registered targets. I used a release trigger because of flinching. I bought a $30,000 kolar trap gun. Yes it looked pretty did not improved my scores alot. I won many matches with lower end trap guns. I did manage to break 3 100 perfect straights with my lower end trap guns in my life time. At 68 I no longer can compete with the young people. So I just took up fly fishing and bullseye shooting. I been doing it now for 3 months and I am hooked.


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Post by gregbenner on 12/29/2019, 10:48 am

Mike, there are different ways to look at it. I personally would agree that a Pardini, or other high end 22 target pistol, likely won’t improve scores compared to a decent Ruger/41/HIgh STD.  

For me, acquiring most of them has given me a far different perspective on a sport I love.  Something I think reading about them can never do. 

I found it difficult to appreciate what makes a really good two stage trigger trigger until I owned and regularly shot most of them. Same with ergonomics and grip angles. 

For example, for me, the Pardini trigger is damn good, but there are better, MG2, SP20, 280. However, again for me, the Pardini has super ergonomics, something that can only be experienced.

Interestlngly, I find there are a few of my guns I shoot regularly, and others (e.g. HS, Scorpion, Nelson conversion) that just aren’t as enjoyable, which for me, is why I shoot.

As you suggest, my scores haven’t really improved, but I think my perspectives, appreciation, and certainly my enjoyment have. 

Get a Pardini and an MG2, then compare them to your new HS. You’ll have a “blast”.

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Post by smsnyder on 12/29/2019, 10:53 am

What 22 pistols dominate the national match shoots?

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Post by willnewton on 12/29/2019, 11:13 am

Lol, after reading your post about trap shooting guns, I understand where you are coming from and where you are heading.

 Just buy the Pardini first and you can work your way down in price as you buy all the other target .22’s to compare it against.

That way you won’t spend all that time second guessing your purchase saying, “This Matchgun is nice, but I still wonder about that Pardini.”

It is cheaper to start at the top of the ladder rather than working your way to the top by upgrading from the bottom rung.
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Post by smsnyder on 12/29/2019, 11:16 am

Willnewton that's funny but about the truth. lol

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Post by SingleActionAndrew on 12/29/2019, 1:16 pm

From other hobbies I've developed or become a believer in the idea that if you have the best equipment, you can isolate the distance between your performance and your goals to your own ability and efforts.

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Post by DA/SA on 12/29/2019, 2:08 pm

Sometimes, it just isn't the guns fault!
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Post by mhayford45 on 12/29/2019, 3:42 pm

Fully agree with CR10X. Training is key with any gun as, in my opinion, each gun handles a little different and one needs to work/train with it in order to shoot it well. 

I have owned and sold many .22s over the years and it boils down to which .22 presents the least set of perceived compromises to the shooter if any at all. 

I have shot a Pardini for the last 5 years. I have a love/dislike relationship with it. However, i would change if I found one that offered fewer compromises. I am constantly working and training with the Pardini in order to keep my scores above 860s. I occasionally shoot in the 870s with it. I can see from my training that in order to consistently shoot above 870s with it, a few things would need to change: 

I have been through 5 grips trying to find one that I like the feel of and points correctly. The Euro Ergo grips have been a issue from a start. But you work and train with it.

It is muzzle heavy. Take weights out and SF improves but TF/RF degrades. So I work and train with it to overcome the weight.

The trigger is fine but is very challenging to setup for a short to medium roll. I think they should redesign the trigger. Many of the adjustments appear to me to have been added on and one little adjustment affects the others.

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Post by mikemyers on 12/29/2019, 9:10 pm

gregbenner wrote:Mike, there are different ways to look at it. I personally would agree that a Pardini, or other high end 22 target pistol, likely won’t improve scores compared to a decent Ruger/41/HIgh STD.............However, again for me, the Pardini has super ergonomics, something that can only be experienced.......Interestlngly, I find there are a few of my guns I shoot regularly, and others (e.g. HS, Scorpion, Nelson conversion) that just aren’t as enjoyable, which for me, is why I shoot.............As you suggest, my scores haven’t really improved, but I think my perspectives, appreciation, and certainly my enjoyment have.  Get a Pardini and an MG2, then compare them to your new HS. You’ll have a “blast”.

Well, lots of good info from lots of good people up above, but part of what you wrote is what made the biggest "dent" in my way of thinking.  From a practical point of view, I wouldn't expect MY scores to improve, as the gun is not what I think is holding me back.  But you also mention the joy of shooting, ergonomics, and enjoyment......which is much of the reason for why I shoot at all.

So, maybe I'll consider adding a Pardini to my wish-list, maybe in six months or a year, and maybe start looking for one.  On the other hand, the "enjoyment" that I get out of shooting is sort of like the "enjoyment" I got out of my old British sports cars from a lifetime ago (without also remembering the pain of owning one).  That's part of why I bought a Miata.  It's also in a way why I want the High Standard I'm getting.  It's something I grew up thinking about, and realizing that if I really want one, why wait.

(I need to be careful - once I start thinking this way, were a Pardini to show up for sale here on the forum, I might be tempted to buy first, and think later.  You guys have a rather large influence in how I think about these things.  Someone here reading his is likely to send me an email some time in the future that they have one for sale, and this person would most likely get a very positive response from me.......Shhh......)
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Post by LenV on 12/30/2019, 12:15 am

Mike, You need to work your way thru all the domestic choices first. There are a lot of choices before you get to the "hard to find mags for" pistols. Also "hard to find grips for" and "hard to find parts for". Of course I am being a tad cynical. I've never had any luck finding one I could even hold.

BUY made in USA


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