Red Dot Appearance

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Post by Axehandle on 12/31/2019, 9:07 pm

We all talk about how our dots look.   Eyes with astigmatism make for seeing a less than pretty dot.  I have those eyes.  My dot looks like a star burst but I have never found it to be an issue with my shooting.  Looked through my Aimpoint 9000SC last week with a camera and dang!  Is this what you guys with perfect eyes see?
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Post by james r chapman on 1/1/2020, 12:16 am

What’s disgusting is that’s what I see in my $30 dot!
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Post by zanemoseley on 1/1/2020, 1:05 am

My 2moa 9000sc dots look amazing, best dot quality I've seen, the 2moa is a very nice pinpoint, yours looks much bigger and more round than eyes pick it up. I'm 36 and have decent eyes with corrective lenses.

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Post by joem5636 on 1/1/2020, 5:42 am

Starring is usually cataracts -- if you do get surgery, early stage will not qualify -- do not get multifocal lenses; use reading glasses. Another reason for 'comet' dots other than astigmatism could be blended bifocals. These are purely for cosmetic purposes.

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Post by Axehandle on 1/1/2020, 6:34 am

FWIW I am 67 years old.  Shooting bullseye since '78, red dots since the mid 80s.  Every dot I've ever looked at looked like a star burst.  20/200 vision corrected to 20/20 from day one and now have cataracts.  Dot looks like it always has in every red dot I've looked through.

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Post by Pbmoser1954 on 1/1/2020, 7:23 am

Excellent topic to discuss. I also have an astigmatism.  My eye doctor says it is corrected. So why am I still seeing the starburst. I find looking through an adjustable aperture the starburst goes away.  What are other ways to cure this problem.  I wish there were more Eye doctors out there that understand the shooting sports.
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Post by CrankyThunder on 1/1/2020, 8:01 am

Dear Axehandle:

I am similar although I am 60 years old and been shooting bullseye since 1977.  The dot used to be nice and round and sharp but now it appears like a flare, blob, flash, comment, dumbells, pretty much any shape you can think of, except a plain round dot.  Compounding this is that I have had serious eyeball injury that required surgery, laser, and treatments involving bi weekly eyeball injections.  (yes they were as pleasant and relaxing as you can imagine).  

Consequently, I have been on a search for a solution.  Went to a dedicated optometrist and got a expensive pair of glasses that did not help.  

Also tried those weird expensive shooting glasses from Champions Choice.  Better.

Recently, was in the pharmacy and noticed a new display for Foster Grant multi coated reading glasses.  ok, picked up a pair to try them out at 3.0 power, my normal reading power and got to thinking that a lesser power might work.  Took a red dot and a slide (no gun) into the pharmacy and selected 1.25, 1.5, and 1.75 and find that they work better then the shooting glasses and the expensive optometrist supplied glasses. 

have been looking through a bunch of Red Dot scopes and find that some scopes are much better then others and am currently searching for the best.  Surprisingly, the old Tasco PRO Point with the 1/3 C battery (not mounted in a separate compartment parallel to the body of the scope) has a very round and true dot although it is very heavy.  

Also took a look through a C-MORE Railway sight, the reflex sight that all the steel plate shooters are using and I am currently investigating that one.  Another one is a Trijicon SRO that I have on order and should be delivered shortly for me to try out.  

Upon exchanging emails with C-More, it appears that they have some new products in the works.  I tried a C-More RTS but found that it was too bright on the lowest setting which started off the email discussion with C-more to begin with.  They are going to look at the returned red dot and see if it is a unique problem to that particular unit or if the whole production of RTS sights are that bright or too bright for me.  

Surprisingly, my existing red dots that I own include ultra dots, aimpoints, Nikon, primary arms, and Sig Sauer.  I suspect that there might be less distortion with the reflex style sights but am concerned with the elevation and windage adjustments that they might not be as repeatable as the tube syle sights. 

Anyways, have not figured it out yet but feel free to pm me if you would like a update. 

Regards, 
crankster
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Post by Gustavo1957 on 1/1/2020, 8:06 am

I think it would be helpful if people stated which Red Dot they are using. I'm 62 with glasses and have only been shooting BE for a year. Outside I can still see open sights well enough.
But inside some of the older ranges have very little light, so Red Dots are much better.

I've tried many types already and can't use open reflex screens like Nikon or Venom. I've found the Sightron and UltraDots to work best for me mounted on HS 107's. Even the mini tube sights aren't as good as I have a harder time picking up Dot.

Started playing with Apertures from PhotoEscape on the Ultradot that seem to be making improvements as well. Made my own rear extension for the Sightron out of Black Delrin with a smaller diameter sight hole. Takes a while to get used to the sight modifications and then see what if any lasting score improvements can be documented. Down range lighting makes a big difference too. I'll add photos.
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IMG_1980.jpg UltraDot 1You don't have permission to download attachments.(128 Kb) Downloaded 0 times
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Last edited by Gustavo1957 on 1/1/2020, 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by lablover on 1/1/2020, 8:16 am

I saw a starburst on my 9000sc. On my ultradot it’s crisp and clear.  On a cheap Simmons dot it’s also crisp and clear......splain that one Lucy!  Hahaha

Btw, all my aim points!
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Post by BE Mike on 1/1/2020, 8:27 am

CrankyThunder wrote:
Recently, was in the pharmacy and noticed a new display for Foster Grant multi coated reading glasses.  ok, picked up a pair to try them out at 3.0 power, my normal reading power and got to thinking that a lesser power might work.  Took a red dot and a slide (no gun) into the pharmacy and selected 1.25, 1.5, and 1.75 and find that they work better then the shooting glasses and the expensive optometrist supplied glasses. 


Regards, 
crankster
I'm now wondering if, especially at the long line, that the bullseye can be distinguished enough to shoot well with those Foster Grants?
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Post by Axehandle on 1/1/2020, 8:58 am

The starburst I see is not a hinderance to accurate shooting.  It simply isn't pretty and round.  I run or have run Aimpoint, SIG, Vortex, Ultradot , Trijicon, and a few other red dots.  They all look the same to me.   Let me also add that I have never wanted a small precise dot for 25 yards.  Makes me try to force tens and Xs.  I area shoot. Turn the dot up nice and bright.  The 10s and Xs take care of themselves.  At 50 yards I turn it down a bit.

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Post by mikemyers on 1/1/2020, 11:28 am

For those of you who have astigmatism, if you visit an ophthalmologist, you can get corrective lenses that minimize the astigmatism.  If they allow you to view lenses through the device in the doctor's office, you could bring along the red dot sight and see which might be better for you.

I've had my cataracts replaced in both eyes, and the prescription polycarbonate shooting glasses they made for me work fine, but I have a pair for "distance" (red dot) and another pair for the distance to my front sight.

There's more than just the dot.  Some sights (such as the Aimpoint 9000sc) show you a larger area in front of you - would be great for me, but for the weight.  My favorite combination of everything I ike is the Aimpoint Micro H-1 or H-2 (I've got one of each).  I like the Matchdot II, but the Aimpoint is lighter.  

Axehandle had an interesting idea I will try - if a tiny dot is "too sensitive", maybe I'll try things his way.  I'm trying to do "area aiming" but my brain still wants to do things the old way, shooting at a point.

Should you get cataract surgery, you can now get a new IOL (the replacement lens that goes into your eye) which not only corrects for the distance prescription, but also corrects the astigmatism.  Then you just need clear shooting glasses (polycarbonate, of course).
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Post by CrankyThunder on 1/1/2020, 4:45 pm

BE Mike wrote:
CrankyThunder wrote:
Recently, was in the pharmacy and noticed a new display for Foster Grant multi coated reading glasses.  ok, picked up a pair to try them out at 3.0 power, my normal reading power and got to thinking that a lesser power might work.  Took a red dot and a slide (no gun) into the pharmacy and selected 1.25, 1.5, and 1.75 and find that they work better then the shooting glasses and the expensive optometrist supplied glasses. 


Regards, 
crankster
I'm now wondering if, especially at the long line, that the bullseye can be distinguished enough to shoot well with those Foster Grants?
 Dear BEMike:

It does for me but on different days the different powers work better.  I can say that on the 50 yard line the 1.25 and 1.5 give me a blurry black circle for a target and the 1.75 not so much. it is a bit more fuzzy then without the glasses but generally a improvement when compared with the dot and target without the glasses.  If you do not want to take a chance on the cheap foster grants, they will let you try them out in the pharmacy, just bring a red dot.  You could do like Sledge Hammer would do and set up a target at the end of a Aisle but I would personally not recommend Sledge's approach. 

Regards, 
Crankster


Last edited by CrankyThunder on 1/1/2020, 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : misspellings added to verify authorship by engineer)
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Post by James Hensler on 1/1/2020, 5:53 pm

Guys I am telling you go to EBay and spend 19.95 for the 2 pack of Eyepals and your dots will be perfect!
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Post by james r chapman on 1/1/2020, 6:07 pm

James Hensler wrote:Guys I am telling you go to EBay and spend 19.95 for the 2 pack of Eyepals and your dots will be perfect!
I tried!!

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Post by James Hensler on 1/1/2020, 6:35 pm

What was the results
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Post by James Hensler on 1/1/2020, 6:37 pm

Red Dot Appearance 4d7e3210
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Post by Wobbley on 1/1/2020, 7:02 pm

Jim. Try this


https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Products-EyePal-Handgun-Pack/dp/B01D1AJZDI/ref=pd_cp_200_2/138-2519572-0278415?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01D1AJZDI&pd_rd_r=f37cda8b-021f-4151-a0c7-73969e5bad98&pd_rd_w=HpgXF&pd_rd_wg=jcwxD&pf_rd_p=0e5324e1-c848-4872-bbd5-5be6baedf80e&pf_rd_r=87VC16YT2FKXC39YMBFT&psc=1&refRID=87VC16YT2FKXC39YMBFT
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Post by Pbmoser1954 on 1/1/2020, 8:35 pm

Eye pal does work. But shooting indoors is rather dark. 
 I like to find another solution then using Eye Pal
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Post by Pbmoser1954 on 1/4/2020, 5:48 am

You also may want to try a good quality lubricating eyedrops. That seems to help me at times. Having very dry eyes will make the dot distorted.
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Post by SingleActionAndrew on 1/4/2020, 8:27 am

For more data, I'm 33 years old and I see a smear on both my 30mm Ultradot matchdot IIs. One exhibits reverse magnification and the other doesn't, but the light looks the same. If I turn up the light power (I use 1 or 2 indoors) the dot gets bigger but with a sunburst. I've been running smallest dot size after getting irritated looking at a dot that's not round - tiny and it looks more like two dots overlapping. A cheap sightmark reflex on my shotgun looks about the same as well.

I'm nearsighted with an astigmatism. Just developed the latter in the last 5 years. Maybe from not taking out contacts for 6 months at a time (taking care of them now that I'm in this sport). I'm wearing toric lenses but the prescription is a year old. I have an optometrist visit coming up with a doctor that sees shooters and I'm going to bring at least the slide of my .45 (last appointment of the day, he does this) and see if we can't find some lenses that make the dot right.

Until then I've been trying focusing on the target, which Feels good to me, and then I don't see the shape of the dot much anyway. Axehandle that would be an amazing thing for the dot to look like that!

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Post by mikemyers on 1/4/2020, 9:54 am

SingleActionAndrew wrote:.......Maybe from not taking out contacts for 6 months at a time (taking care of them now that I'm in this sport).......
I'm not going to post the image, but my doctor at Aravind Eye Hospital won first place in a photo contest, when she took a photo of the person's eye who had done that.  Not pretty.  She did fix the eye for the patient, but it's not good for the cornea to leave contacts in longer than you're supposed to.

All my red dot scopes look good to me, but that's because I don't have astigmatism.  Next time I come, I will bring one of my sights, to ask if a lens could be added to the sight to correct for astigmatism.  Ask your eye doctor, when you visit.  Maybe he can put one of the test lenses on the rear of your dot sight, and you can see if it helps.
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Post by neal77 on 1/4/2020, 7:15 pm

After trying all my reading glasses,and bifocals from the last few prescriptions I had, the only thing that worked for me with my Ultradot, was the small transition area(middle of the lens) on an old set of progressive lenses. Single lenses with that same magnification as that area have not worked out as well. Go figure !

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Post by mikemyers on 1/4/2020, 7:36 pm

If you could mark that "spot" with a non-permanent magic marker, then take those lenses to an optician, they have ways to identify the prescription.  Then they can put the device on your head, that allows them to try out different prescriptions, and try to match, and maybe improve on, that prescription.  

You wrote that "single glasses with that same magnifications as that area" have not worked, but I don't know how you would measure that exact prescription.   The look through your lenses and move them around, as they put other test lenses up against them - I've never asked, but I'll try to find out how they do this.

Another idea - speculating - I'm wearing transition lenses as I'm typing this.  As I move my head and down, so I'm constantly seeing through a slightly higher or lower part of the lens, I notice that the distance at which things become sharp changes.  You could mark your lenses as I suggested, look through them at that same spot, and look for what distance from you things look the sharpest.  Let's say you find that this particular spot on your lens gives you the sharpest vision at 24 inches.  You could then try on a pair of their test lenses, with that exact power, and there is a chance it will do the same thing.  

There may be other things going on with your glasses.  Once you identify part of the lenses that works for you, I would expect they could give you a lens with that exact prescription.

If that "spot" makes your dot look best, and if you're looking at the "dot", not the target, I would expect this to work for you, but there may well be be other things going on that I don't understand.

(As another test, you could place a piece of black paper with a 1/4" or 1/2" hole in it, and tape it over your lens so the only place you can see through is the one spot that worked for you.  You could try that with the scope, and if it works as well as you suggest, just take the glasses with the black paper taped to them, to your optometrist and ask them to use their test kit to replicate that prescription.   )
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Post by jlow on 1/5/2020, 4:42 pm

Keep in mind that there are two major types of red dot sight - Reflex (i.e Aimpoint, etc) and holographic (EoTech and Vortex HU-1).  I have used an Aimpoint M4S for many years and the shooting star is quite evident as is the same problem with all other reflex sights such as SIG.

At least for me, the holographic gives me a clear dot (both EoTech and Vortex), which was a great surprise for me the first time I ran into this.  The Vortex has a 1 MOA dot which allows me to shoot precisely.

BUT I would urge you to go and look through one before buying.

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