Powder puff loads got 160g .45?

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Post by gregbenner on 1/5/2020, 5:03 pm

I load 2.8g BE with 148 g bullets in my Clark 38 special. Super mild recoil. I currently load 3.5 grains of Bullseye for 200 grain SWC for my 45, mild recoil and accurate at 25y. I’m wondering if anyone has tried a really powder puff load with the 160 g .45  swc?  I’m thinking the coated Brazos bullet. Only for 25y and for practice.

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Post by Multiracer on 1/5/2020, 5:16 pm

Keep in mind the gun needs to function reliably. You may be changing out parts just to save some powder. Usually the lighter the projectile the more powder needed to make it all work.

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Post by Richard Benoit on 1/5/2020, 5:46 pm

Hi, I tested some loads today , I'm going to require some mouse fart loads after recovering from upcoming arm and hand surgery. The baseline I'm comparing to is a Zero 200 Lswc over 3.5 of Bullseye or a Zero 185 Lswc(old style w/o hollowpoint) over 4.0 of WST. I think my hand/arm is sort of insensitive to slight differences in recoil impulse due to assorted nerve and arthritis damage, everything hurts to a certain degree. However , those 2 loads seem to have a similar total recoil , the 200/bullseye being maybe softer pushing vs. the 185/WST being quicker/snappier. I judge total recoil by where the front sight ends up at maximum recoil. The gun BTW is a ball gun with a 15# recoil spring and regular mainspring. Usual load is 4.1 /3.7 N310 long/short line pushing a Zero 185 Jhp. Per suggestions on this forum I started with 4.1 N310 and the coated 160s , recoil was no different than the baseline loads. 3.8 Tite-Group was the best I tried today , a real softie that barely functions . 3.7 WST felt similar to 4.0 Tite-Group, maybe a touch softer. 3.9 WST, 3.9 700X and 4.1 700x all had similar levels of total recoil , possibly less than the baseline but not enough to get excited about. I'm going to try 3.6 of both WST and Tite-Group with a reduced recoil spring , if they function well then I'll start testing for accuracy . Interestingly, I thought Tite-Group was supposed to be a bulky powder , I thought maybe an advantage at low charge weights. It actually seems to occupy less space than WST. Cases were asst TZZ. Further testing will have to wait about a month until I recover from surgery, Richard

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Post by tomsp8 on 1/5/2020, 6:08 pm

I bought a sample of the Brazos 160's (I am currently shooting their coated 200 swc) and cannot get them to reliably feed no matter what I've tried. I really wanted to like them, too.

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Post by TonyH on 1/5/2020, 6:11 pm

gregbenner wrote:I load 2.8g BE with 148 g bullets in my Clark 38 special. Super mild recoil. I currently load 3.5 grains of Bullseye for 200 grain SWC for my 45, mild recoil and accurate at 25y. I’m wondering if anyone has tried a really powder puff load with the 160 g .45  swc?  I’m thinking the coated Brazos bullet. Only for 25y and for practice.
 I’ve been shooting 4.2 grains BE with the Bob’s Bullets 160 SWC with great results. Your mileage may vary.... Very Happy.
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Post by james r chapman on 1/5/2020, 6:40 pm

Yeah, 4.2-4.3 is generally what it takes to get the 160 to function depending on your gun setup.
No free lunch
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Post by gregbenner on 1/5/2020, 6:41 pm

I’m trying to figure out why, if 2.8g BE will easily function in a 1911 with a 148 g bullet, something comparable couldn’t work with a 160 g bullet, say 3 g BE.  Would need the right recoil spring of course. 

For those of you using 4.2 g powder, what weight recoil spring do you have?

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Post by Ray Dash on 1/5/2020, 6:50 pm

Do any of you guys use a slide mounted optic with these light loads?
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Post by Wobbley on 1/5/2020, 6:51 pm

Try 3.5-3.6 700x with a 200 grain and the 185 grain.  That load shot well and recoil was manageable.
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Post by james r chapman on 1/5/2020, 7:41 pm

Ray Dash wrote:Do any of you guys use a slide mounted optic with these light loads?
yes, Clark with a matchdot II, takes 4.3 BE
12# spring
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Post by TonyH on 1/5/2020, 7:49 pm

Frame mount, 12 lb. spring. Nothing unmanageable about that load....need to drive those light bullets faster in a 45, and the gun has to cycle reliably.
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Post by lablover on 1/5/2020, 7:57 pm

Ray Dash wrote:Do any of you guys use a slide mounted optic with these light loads?
Hey Ray

Takes 4.5 BE for me and the 160s. I figure what’s the point now.  200s for me from now on!  Recoil feels better with 200 and 4.0 be
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Post by zanemoseley on 1/5/2020, 8:23 pm

My 1911 with the coated 160's take 4.6 WST for function, that's with a 10# spring and .463" crimp. It's a tight custom gun from Jon with a 9000SC and upgraded rings.

When I first started loading them I mixed magazines with them and my previous reloads which were 185 H&G 68 WST loads. I would alternate shots between the 185 and 160 grain bullets. I felt a slight reduction in felt recoil with the 160's, it's not a game changing difference but I could feel it. I haven't shot 200's in a long time.

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Post by PhotoEscape on 1/5/2020, 8:46 pm

H&G #68 is 200 grain mold.  H&G #130 is for 185 grain.
I use 4.40 grains of BE or 4.40 grains of N310 (this load was recommended by Steve Turner here on forum) with Brazos coated 160 grainers.  Seated at ~0.920" base to shoulder, 0.463"- 0.465" crimp.  Shooting out of multiple guns with slide mounted 9000SCs.

Zane,
Which rings are you using on 9000SC?  Stock rings don't hold well, I had to rethread to use M4 bolts plus install additional locking nuts.

AP
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Post by zanemoseley on 1/5/2020, 9:12 pm

I like the Weaver 99515 rings. They weigh a bit more but are much nicer than stock, they have a cross bolt with a steel stud embedded in the ring. The stock rings have the cross bolt threaded into aluminum, after I stripped one I didn't trust them anymore.

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Post by jglenn21 on 1/6/2020, 8:23 am

I'm currently down to 4.3 of WST with the  Hi-Tek coated 160s. 1" UD  slide mount and 10lb recoil spring. 19 lb mainspring. A good friend is running 4.0 of BE with them. Very reliable for us.
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Post by lablover on 1/6/2020, 8:40 am

jglenn21 wrote:I'm currently down to 4.3 of WST with the  Hi-Tek coated 160s. 1" UD  slide mount and 10lb recoil spring. 19 lb mainspring. A good friend is running 4.0 of BE with them. Very reliable for us.
I’m moving to a 1” UD as we speak!!  Super light. I’m finding the 30mm UD 2 seems almost as heavy as the aimpoint 9000.  Almost
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Post by messenger on 1/6/2020, 3:07 pm

I have good results with 4.0gr Bullseye under Brazos 160's HT coating using a .463 crimp and a 10lb recoil spring.

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Post by Plunker on 1/6/2020, 3:35 pm

Bill,

 Are you using the 4.0 under 160 Brazos HT coated on the short line only ?  both ?   or going a little hotter for the 50 yd. line?

 Happy New Year by the way.

Kevin

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Post by Lightfoot on 1/6/2020, 3:36 pm

gregbenner wrote:I load 2.8g BE with 148 g bullets in my Clark 38 special. Super mild recoil. I currently load 3.5 grains of Bullseye for 200 grain SWC for my 45, mild recoil and accurate at 25y. I’m wondering if anyone has tried a really powder puff load with the 160 g .45  swc?  I’m thinking the coated Brazos bullet. Only for 25y and for practice.
I can run the 160 with 3.7 Bullseye in my Les Baer with an H1 slide mounted 13 lb spring and in my SA RO ball gun with 14lb spring.  Both guns function reliably and the slide locks back.  I'm not sure why both of mine work and others don't?  The LB doesn't lock up super tight.  The RO has a Kart fit by Rock River and is pretty well locked up.  But there's no optic there so that makes it easier.  Anytime you're trying to cheat Smile the system, be prepared to test and try to find balance.
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Post by orpheoet on 1/6/2020, 3:39 pm

I use 4.3gr WST 1.16" COL 0.466" crimp and have an Ultradot 2 on the slide. Factory Springfield hammer spring and 9lb recoil spring. Extremely reliable. Using Dardas or Bob's 160's I dont't think I ever had an alibi with the 160's. I did have to go to a tighter crimp with the coated bullet.
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Post by Lightfoot on 1/6/2020, 3:39 pm

tomsp8 wrote:I bought a sample of the Brazos 160's (I am currently shooting their coated 200 swc) and cannot get them to reliably feed no matter what I've tried. I really wanted to like them, too.
 Let me know what you've tried and what troubles you are having.  Maybe I can help out.  Sometimes though, the best solution is to load 200's lighter.  They seem to have the mass needed to function the slide with lighter loads.  For example my buddies gun won't function with my sweet little 160/3.7 loads but will eat up 200/3.2 loads.  Both are really smooth and light and easy to recover from.
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Post by Jon Eulette on 1/6/2020, 3:43 pm

tomsp8 wrote:I bought a sample of the Brazos 160's (I am currently shooting their coated 200 swc) and cannot get them to reliably feed no matter what I've tried. I really wanted to like them, too.
Describe your feeding issue? What pistol? Was it built by a smith? What magazines?
Jon
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Post by messenger on 1/6/2020, 8:25 pm

Plunker wrote:Bill,

 Are you using the 4.0 under 160 Brazos HT coated on the short line only ?  both ?   or going a little hotter for the 50 yd. line?

 Happy New Year by the way.

Kevin

This load is just for the short line. I don't think I have enough adjustment in my Aimpoint to make it to the long line. I go 4.4gr for the long line.

Bill
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Post by Richard Benoit on 1/7/2020, 1:48 pm

gregbenner wrote:I load 2.8g BE with 148 g bullets in my Clark 38 special. Super mild recoil. I currently load 3.5 grains of Bullseye for 200 grain SWC for my 45, mild recoil and accurate at 25y. I’m wondering if anyone has tried a really powder puff load with the 160 g .45  swc?  I’m thinking the coated Brazos bullet. Only for 25y and for practice.
In an earlier post on this subject, it was mentioned that N310 was not an appropriate powder to use with coated bullets. I did notice an odor firing loads with N310 that was not present with 700x, WST or Tite-Group. However , the N310 loads were significantly higher velocity , so I'm not sure if the difference was due to the powder used or higher pressures, etc.. Also, I tried an EGW firing pin stop with the minor radius as some reviews claimed that to have a significant impact on perceived recoil. Firing the same load back to back out of two essentially identical ball guns I was unable to tell any difference. The search for a non-injurious powder puff load continues.

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