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Questions about selling

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Questions about selling Empty Questions about selling

Post by furele on 1/19/2020, 2:57 pm

Thanks for all the help in getting my guns ready for sale. I have a few more questions before I get things rolling.
Should I sell dealer to dealer?
What is the safest form of payment?

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Post by JKR on 1/19/2020, 4:49 pm

Unless you sell face to face you’ll need the dealers for legal transfer. Not sure if face to face is legal in some states.
Get a bank or postal money order.

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Post by radjag on 1/19/2020, 5:10 pm

My bank has told me that even Cashier Checks are not 100% non-negotiable. Therefore I usually insist on USPS Money Orders - they are as good as cash.

It was explained to me that under certain circumstances a cashier check can be revoked (e.g. if the Buyer goes bankrupt and the bank who issued the cashier check has to recover funds, they can call on the receiving bank to refund). I'm not an accountant or a lawyer, so am not able to make any judgement, but better safe than sorry!

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Post by Sevens on 1/19/2020, 5:36 pm

Tripscape wrote:Now, many will beat up on me because Paypal does not allow use of their service for firearm transactions.
I have no intention to "beat up on you" but YEP, I will argue the point. You are advocating for others to funnel money through an organization that is vehemently anti-gun, skirting their clearly defined rules AND fueling & funding their business. And you even make a short mention of "being flagged" but they will FREEZE your account and you'll have no access to your money.

There is nothing whatsoever about this that is a good idea.

I do agree that even the "gold standard" (read those quote marks as rolling eyes/snark) of the USPS Money Order is not infallible and is, in my opinion, too highly regarded.

Sorry that I am not offering a better or more secure transaction suggestion, but I believe that any use of PayPal is a rotten idea for those of us that support gun rights in the United States of America. Those folks at PayPal are not my kind of folks, and I won't be a party to their efforts.

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Post by PhotoEscape on 1/19/2020, 5:42 pm

JKR wrote:Unless you sell face to face you’ll need the dealers for legal transfer. Not sure if face to face is legal in some states.

Respectfully, this is not totally accurate statement.  Most states, including IL allow for individual-to-FFl transfer.  However there is a catch associated with shipping cost.  For individual-to-FFL transfer such cost can supersede the cost of transferring firearm through FFL-to-FFL route.  Thus I suggest exploring options with each particular transaction, and shipping to particular geography.

As for payment methods, try to look at the transaction from buyers standpoint.  There is the limit on how many USPS Money orders and limit on the total sum one can procure in a day.  If I remember correctly limit is $1,000.00 per single Money order, and cumulatively one can obtain no more then a total in the amount of $1,000 in Money orders per day.  I might be wrong in some of the above.  However based on my own experience, it is a hustle when the total goes over $1K.  It is also a hustle to go to the bank for cashier's check or any other payment instrument.  My own preference for either buying or selling is PayPal Friends & Family as a first option, and individual / business check as a second.  When F&F option is used one is not obligated to disclose what that payment is for, and hence it is very well known (to PayPay in particular) way around enacted on paper restrictions (i.e. more and more sellers on GB nowadays show PayPal as a payment option).  PayPal transfer is pretty much instantaneous.  Lastly - I'm yet to come across of someone who I would not trust on this forum on either end of transaction type.

AP
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Post by Tripscape on 1/19/2020, 5:48 pm

[size=78]I agree on the type of organization Paypal is. For that matter same with Facebook, Google and many others.  Money order and Cashier's check are next best things.  Again, in gun sales I don't know any sellers that got screwed, but do know many buyers who did. Now, if it's anything else that is not regulated, for example jewelry, then I would never sell by any other means than Paypal. They may suck, but losing money sucks more.[/size]

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Post by willnewton on 1/19/2020, 5:50 pm

Tripscape wrote:Now, many will beat up on me because Paypal does not allow use of their service for firearm transactions.

Actually, only one of us.  Please remove or edit your post to remove suggestions about how to break the law ASAP or I will take it all down.

Thanks
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Post by Tripscape on 1/19/2020, 5:56 pm

I an not sure about this being "the law", but that specific comlany's rule / practice that even they are not regulating very well.

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Post by Tripscape on 1/19/2020, 6:01 pm

Not cool, I was about to edit my post and you took it down already. I spent a lot of time writing it and sharing valuable information especially how not to get scammed.

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Post by willnewton on 1/19/2020, 6:03 pm

Had plenty of time to argue semantics didn’t you?

Post deleted. End of discussion.
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Post by Tripscape on 1/19/2020, 6:04 pm

willnewton wrote:Had plenty of time to argue semantics didn’t you?

Post deleted. End of discussion.
I am just trying to help others, who did YOU help?

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Post by zanemoseley on 1/19/2020, 6:07 pm

Using PayPal for firearm transactions is not against the law, it is however against their terms of service and should they find out about it you will likely get your account terminated.

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Post by LenV on 1/19/2020, 7:15 pm

Time for everyone to switch to Zelle. Or something your bank uses that is similar. Instant account to account.

Len


https://www.zellepay.com/
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Post by Tripscape on 1/19/2020, 7:34 pm

Len,

I heard of Zelle and Venmo.  How much do they charge on a transaction?  Can a sender retract funds post sent?

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Post by mpolans on 1/19/2020, 8:06 pm

On shipping:  Unless you're an FFL, only long guns can be mailed via US Postal Service (USPS), otherwise, you have to use a "common carrier" like FedEx or UPS...and they usually require pricey next day shipping.  FFLs *can* ship handguns via USPS...my FFL dealer doesn't charge anything extra to ship, so I send any handgun I sell through him via USPS.

What shipping service:  After hearing the horror stories of folks trying to file claims with FedEx and UPS, all of who have heavy profit motives to deny claims, I only ship via USPS (and I've had good luck with claims.  For cheaper items (under $800 or so), I ship via USPS Priority with Insurance (guns go Restricted Delivery).  For high dollar items (about $800 or more), I ship via USPS Registered Mail.  It's more of a pain to deal with paper tape, but it's *the* most secure method (everyone who touches the box has to sign for it, creating a chain of custody), and on expensive items, its cheaper than sending Priority+Insurance.  For some high-end $5k+ items like Perazzi and Krieghoff shotguns, it's the only way to go, since regular USPS Priority Insurance tops out at $5k.

On receiving:  All firearms must be *received* by an FFL, who will then do the background check and transfer to the buyer.  The only exception would be someone sending a gun to a manufacturer to be worked on; then the manufacturer can return it directly to the sending owner.

On payment:  I only accept USPS money orders.  They're universally recognized and accepted by any bank.  They're relatively hard to fake. No need to pay extra insurance when sending them (USPS covers them and the sender can file a claim).  Assuming they have enough cash in the drawer, any USPS Office will cash them, so they're as good as cash.

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Post by Wobbley on 1/19/2020, 9:06 pm

Payment by electronic transfer.

Somebody mentioned Zelle as a service to send money.  Most banks will also accommodate electronic funds transfer.  I have used this in the past Both to send and receive money including internationally.  There are fees but for anything over $1000 they become tolerable.  The faster the transaction the higher the fees.  All you need is the bank routing number.  It does have to be a bank as credit unions aren’t in the same system.
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Post by DA/SA on 1/19/2020, 9:25 pm

And then there is Walmart!

https://www.moneygram.com/walmart/us/en/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAmZDxBRDIARIsABnkbYT4Mf7PQvg2AnlS1TyyLKqYgXb_u6rD-GPWZcVEHCP7K_385hCFmK8aAs3PEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Haven't tried it yet, though, but it looks interesting.
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Post by LenV on 1/19/2020, 9:47 pm

Several nice things about Zelle. You don't have to give anyone your routing number. Everything is tied to your email address and only your bank knows what account it is tied too. There is a list of FAQ's on that link I posted above. So far (knock on wood) there are no fees associated with using Zelle. You can send money, receive money and request money. My US Bank phone app and online banking list Zelle right on their options. I am not going to stick my neck out and say it is 100% safe (what is?) but I think it's pretty close.

Len
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Post by radjag on 1/19/2020, 10:44 pm

I've also used Zelle a few times, and PayPal for non-firearms, but I still believe that when selling stuff and receiving funds then USPS Money Orders are the safest convenient method. Once you take the MO and cash it at the Post Office there is no possible further recourse. The Buyer had to pay cash at their PO and you, the Seller, gets cash on demand. The only problem I have faced is that sometimes my local PO does not have enough cash in the till to pay me.
I have not had a problem buying more than $1,000 at one time (more than one MO required), I don't know if there is a limit.
Just my humble opinion.

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Post by smithfan4152 on 1/19/2020, 10:52 pm

I have purchased multiple money orders exceeding a total of $1000.00, I'm not sure what the limit is but it's more than $1000.00, but limit per order is 1k. Also when you use pay pal, and use friends and family, no fee is charged to the receiver, and if you had a problem with a sale the buyer can't get his money back, unless you agree to refund it. The thing is that neither party admits to purchasing or selling firearms. Pay pal is against its service being used to buy firearms, so I use it any chance I can because it's much easier and quicker than mailing off a money order. And yes a bank money order can be stopped as long as it has not been cashed, and even a cashiers check as well. I was about to be cheated out of $12,000.00 once, buying a large inventory of model aircraft kits, engines and radio's. I had sent a cashiers check for 10K and then added a money order for 2k. I expressed mailed it to him in Texas, but had a feeling what did I just do. Explained my situation at the bank, and they canceled both transactions. I have only had one attempt to defraud me in the purchase of an air rifle, but for the past 15 years I have yet to have any issues with buyers or sellers , I feel I'm fortunate in that department.
Also you can cash your postal money orders at a bank, the problem with the postal money order is if it get's lost. I have had one get lost, and you must wait 1 month to get a refund. I believe if that happened with a bank money order, as long as it was not cashed you could cancel it, and get another one. I believe.

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Post by radjag on 1/19/2020, 11:04 pm

smithfan4152 wrote:
The problem with the postal money order is if it get's lost. I have had one get lost, and you must wait 1 month to get a refund. I believe if that happened with a bank money order, as long as it was not cashed you could cancel it, and get another one. I believe.
Yes, that is a very good point. Your comment reminded me that I had a problem with one MO, the envelope was returned to sender undelivered (my local PO could not explain why that occurred) and the Buyer then backed out and refused to re-mail the MO. Then I had to claim a fee refund from GunBroker - a PITA all round.
But, whilst that one event did cause some consternation, I've done many more with MO's smoothly and successfully (both buying and selling).
I guess that its the old story of "ya pays ya money and takes ya choice!".

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Post by smithfan4152 on 1/20/2020, 9:30 am

the funny story about my MO problem was I sent it priority mail to the west coast, well that's where it ended up, it was supposed to be 1 state east, and there was no explanation why a properly addressed flat rate envelope would be lost in there system. I was actually calling post offices in 2 CA. cities, where it was  being sent from to another office, and they intercepted the envelope, and then helped me so that I didn't have to wait for it to be returned, who knows where it would have ended up had they sent it back.

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Post by lyman1903 on 1/22/2020, 5:06 pm

mpolans wrote:On shipping:  Unless you're an FFL, only long guns can be mailed via US Postal Service (USPS), otherwise, you have to use a "common carrier" like FedEx or UPS...and they usually require pricey next day shipping.  FFLs *can* ship handguns via USPS...my FFL dealer doesn't charge anything extra to ship, so I send any handgun I sell through him via USPS.

What shipping service:  After hearing the horror stories of folks trying to file claims with FedEx and UPS, all of who have heavy profit motives to deny claims, I only ship via USPS (and I've had good luck with claims.  For cheaper items (under $800 or so), I ship via USPS Priority with Insurance (guns go Restricted Delivery).  For high dollar items (about $800 or more), I ship via USPS Registered Mail.  It's more of a pain to deal with paper tape, but it's *the* most secure method (everyone who touches the box has to sign for it, creating a chain of custody), and on expensive items, its cheaper than sending Priority+Insurance.  For some high-end $5k+ items like Perazzi and Krieghoff shotguns, it's the only way to go, since regular USPS Priority Insurance tops out at $5k.

On receiving:  All firearms must be *received* by an FFL, who will then do the background check and transfer to the buyer.  The only exception would be someone sending a gun to a manufacturer to be worked on; then the manufacturer can return it directly to the sending owner.

On payment:  I only accept USPS money orders.  They're universally recognized and accepted by any bank.  They're relatively hard to fake. No need to pay extra insurance when sending them (USPS covers them and the sender can file a claim).  Assuming they have enough cash in the drawer, any USPS Office will cash them, so they're as good as cash.


very good write up, 


note on Registered mail,  you can calculate it on the USPS website, but never go by the delivery estimate, 

like mentioned Registered passes from person to person,  so the delivery time tends to be 2-4 times longer  or more than Priority,  depending on distance of course,  and you have to hand deliver it to the post office,  (not just print a label from Click n Ship and drop off)
plain paper, plain paper tape, no clear tape etc


if you have to use FedEx or UPS,  you can create an account and print your own tag, but never ever use a UPS store, they can have issues,
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