Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

22 scores suffering from 45

+2
CR10X
Stork
6 posters

Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by Stork 1/25/2020, 1:46 pm

I started bullseye last Jan and am currently shooting 260's-270's with my Ruger MKII. Feeling good about things and enjoying a casual league, I got talked into a bigger league in Stoughton, WI. I was hoping to shoot a 280 by the end of our league (with some additional training), but have been going the opposite way.

I recently bought a Range Officer to start adapting to it before the fall center-fire league. Didn't like the stock trigger so I bought one of KC's trigger kits to try a roll trigger. I like the trigger a lot, but since dry firing the roll trigger and shooting it, my 22 scores have plummeted. Thursday I shot a very disappointing and frustrating 235...

The Ruger MKII trigger is nothing like that roll trigger. At all... The roll is a longish vs very short to no roll on the Ruger. This difference is what's killing me. I'm positive I can train away my issues, but that could be a long process. I don't want to spend months trying to adapt/change/fine tune my shot process for each gun while also trying to improve my application of the fundamentals unless I know that's the right path to take. I'm willing to put in some time, but let's be realistic as well.

Equipment wise, what do y'all recommend? I know some shoot a conversion kit and learn only one trigger. Should I look into that? Maybe just go back to a non roll trigger in the 1911? Do some work on the Ruger trigger to give it some roll? Or do nothing and just shoot/learn both? I do like the 1911 grip angle better and will eventually get a conversion. Maybe this is the right time?

Training wise, any advice for switching between different triggers? Dry fire both more and figure it out? Take notes, develop a different shot process for both, and just adapt? If so, any advice on how to make that journey less painful/quicker? Or maybe just focus on one gun for now?

I have gone back to the beginning of the USMC workbook to try and regain my confidence/trigger control with the Ruger. That already helped a ton last night and I'll likely be back at the range tomorrow morning continuing where I left off. My big goal for this spring was to try and complete the workbook for the .22, but I didn't think I'd be motivated by my new toy.

Stork

Posts : 47
Join date : 2019-01-14
Location : WI

Back to top Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty Re: 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by CR10X 1/25/2020, 3:13 pm

What's your scores with the .45?  If they are in the 235 or lower range, the you might want to check for blinking or flinching some.  Everybody goes through a transition when moving to the .45.  It's just a little different, and can be a lot more fun, when you learn how to ride the horse.  

First it just might be too much focus on trigger and not on the sights.  Watch the front sight all the way until you can see the muzzle flash and the front sight / rear sight start to move with the recoil.  You'll be surprised how much you can see when you really train to see it all. 

Second, when transitioning to .45 some shooter develop a blink or flinch.  Have someone watch you shoot, not the gun but your eye.  Wear earplugs and ear muffs when shooting (.22 and .45, indoors or out).  Do some dummy round drills with some else loading the magazine for you.   

Third area is the grip.  You can get by with a so - so grip on a .22 depending on the gun and trigger weight.  With a .45 you will need to learn a good, consistent grip.  So train on gripping the Ruger like a .45 and then grip the .45 like you trained with the Ruger.

Different trigger types can be an issue, but only if you are paying more attention to the trigger than the sight alignment.  Keep focusing on the front sight and try to let the trigger become consistent and smooth and in the background.  Crisp trigger is just increasing pressure until it trips; roll trigger is just some movement while increasing pressure till it trips.  Some people find one distracting, others find the other one distracting.  You can shoot both well with just a little work.  Eventually, you'll find a preference.  

CR

CR10X

Posts : 1735
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty Re: 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by SingleActionAndrew 1/25/2020, 3:48 pm

Newbie bullseye shooter here, but: I put a volquartsen trigger kit (sear, sear spring, plunger & spring, hammer, trigger, cnc trigger bar) in my Clark Custon Ruger MkIII and it has been driving me crazy. I swapped it back to the Clark-tuned Ruger parts last night (except the hammer & trigger bar) because the volquartsen was just so different. I did my worst shooting with it at the last match, with many of my shots above the black. With the Clark-done trigger it's a 2.25-2.5 on/off switch and very intuitive to me. With the volquartsen there is a lot more movement and less feedback to me and harder to anticipate where it will break. I'm of the impression that the volquartsen style is probably what's necessary for the zenith of performance but for me right now, I'm trying to improve my .45 and my 22 performance falling out from under me is affecting my confidence shooting the 45 (which has a 2 stage trigger and a short amount of roll which I find much easier and Fun than the volquartsen).

So perhaps try the volquartsen parts in your Ruger to see if that's more similar to the 1911? Very Happy Volquartsen sells a 1911-angle grip frame assembly I think with their parts already installed and "ready" to be hammered onto your barrelled receiver.

I'm sure I should stop changing parts and just train, train, keep training, and then train the fundamentals. But that would be the easier path!
SingleActionAndrew
SingleActionAndrew

Posts : 347
Join date : 2019-11-19
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty Re: 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by Stork 1/25/2020, 4:28 pm

CR10X wrote:Different trigger types can be an issue, but only if you are paying more attention to the trigger than the sight alignment.  Keep focusing on the front sight and try to let the trigger become consistent and smooth and in the background.  Crisp trigger is just increasing pressure until it trips; roll trigger is just some movement while increasing pressure till it trips.  Some people find one distracting, others find the other one distracting.  You can shoot both well with just a little work.  Eventually, you'll find a preference.  

CR


This paragraph just explained all of my issues. I have not been focusing on the sights. The different trigger definitely distracted me. That was the first thing I noticed last night when trying to focus on the Ruger. When I was thinking about the trigger, I was no longer keeping my sights aligned. Nor was I as aware of how long I was holding or putting the gun down when I should have. I also was allowing myself to waiver from a 6 to a sub 6 hold. Once I started focusing on my front sight again, things instantly improved. 

As for the rest of your comments:

I have no idea what my 45 scores are yet. I've only shot the 45 for fun. However, I did notice a flinch with the 45 after about 40 rds the last time I shot it. That was before I installed the roll trigger. The roll trigger is very different for me, so I've been trying to dry fire till it felt natural before shooting the 45 again. 

My grip was very apparent right away with the 45. I've been working on grip when I shoot the 45 but not transferring it to the 22. That lack of consistency cannot be helping.

Sounds like I really need to train more and be sure I'm focusing on the front sight rather than the trigger.

Andrew, 

I have all the volquartsen parts in my Ruger. I too have noticed that movement. I recently polished everything besides the sear face and hammer hook area ,and that made the trigger more consistent. Occasionally I'd get this sweet short roll that I absolutely loved (hence buying the KC kit for the 1911). Now that's gone, but it's consistently gone. I'll take consistentcy any day over the perfect feel. Thanks for the suggestion though, and I appreciate you chiming in. Feels better knowing I'm not the only newb struggling with this. I've looked at the new volquartsen grip as well, but it's something like 87% of the cost of the Nelson conversion I want. If I buy the grip, I'll also want the bolt. Then I'm most of the way to a 41... So yeah, I'm trying really hard to avoid the slippery slope with this Ruger.

Stork

Posts : 47
Join date : 2019-01-14
Location : WI

Back to top Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty Re: 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by Tim:H11 1/25/2020, 6:19 pm

Sight alignment and trigger control: 1A and 1B. They've got to work together. No matter what you do both guns with never be truly like one another. You have to learn how they work, feel, and respond individually to be able to use them well. This means spending plenty of time training on both. If you overdo it on one gun and less on another you won't catch one up with the other. You'll just transfer your issues from one gun to the other. And you might not be able to shoot one in the same manner as the other. Both will take work to learn their nuances. If you're hung up on how a trigger feels too much during the shot you can be distracted enough to make poor shots. 1A and 1B. Needs to be a balance. 

I used to shoot muzzleloader pistols cobpetivelty and there was a difference between my caplock, flintlock, and revolver. So much so that no amount of mechanical work was really going to allow me to shoot them the same. I had to learn the personalities of each gun. Same in Bullseye. I have really nice roll triggers on my guns but my 45 is nothing like my 22. They all need training and focus.
Tim:H11
Tim:H11

Posts : 2055
Join date : 2015-11-04
Age : 34
Location : Midland, GA

Back to top Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty Re: 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by David R 1/26/2020, 8:32 am

First, it will come back.  If you were into the 270s even a little, you will be back there again.   

A 45 is a whole different animal.  Worry less about the trigger function and concentrate on the sights like said above more than once.  I was taught there are 2 important things, SIGHTS and TRIGGER CONTROL.  (also said above).

Learn to shoot the 45 just like your 22.   Aim, squeeeeeze until the shot goes off.  Deal with the recoil after the shot breaks and the bullet is gone.

You will improve, the 45 will help you shoot the 22 better and the 22  will teach you trigger control (it already has).

Keep at it, and don't give up.   You just need to shoot more.

I have been shooting since 1987 and trigger control is what I work on most.   

Its more about what is in your head than what is in your hand.


David
David R
David R

Posts : 408
Join date : 2018-12-10
Age : 62
Location : Hamlin NY

Back to top Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty Re: 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by DA/SA 1/26/2020, 11:55 am

David R wrote:Worry less about the trigger function and concentrate on the sights like said above more than once.  

I have been shooting since 1987 and trigger control is what I work on most.   

Isn't that sort of a contradiction, or am I reading that incorrectly?
DA/SA
DA/SA

Posts : 957
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 66
Location : Southeast Florida

Back to top Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty Re: 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by David R 1/26/2020, 12:22 pm

Trigger function.  If its a clean break or a roll trigger.   I probably am explaining incorrectly.

This works for me, but probably not everyone.  I shoot full power loads out of a Different 1911 at practice to work on my trigger control.   I can see it.   First couple of shots go wild and then I concentrate on the trigger pull and don't think about the recoil.  Shots get closer to the center.  

Then when I am shooting target loads, its easier. 
David
David R
David R

Posts : 408
Join date : 2018-12-10
Age : 62
Location : Hamlin NY

Back to top Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty Re: 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by DA/SA 1/26/2020, 12:28 pm

OK, that clarifies it. Thanks!

I'm presently working on the same issue as the OP, as I decided to shoot a match with a .38 Sp revolver in DA, which I had never tried. It worked well, but now my 1911/Marvel Mojo is in the dirt from getting used to the DA revolver pull...
DA/SA
DA/SA

Posts : 957
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 66
Location : Southeast Florida

Back to top Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty Re: 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by CR10X 1/26/2020, 1:28 pm

Isn't that sort of a contradiction, or am I reading that incorrectly?

Nope, you work on trigger control when training.  Get it smooth, consistent, uninterrupted and straight to the back.  Then do it a few thousand times correctly, then a few thousand more. Then when shooting the match (not training), you can just focus on the sights (and let the trigger finger and other part of your brain take care of the trigger).  Or when training for other parts of the shot process, the trigger will be in the background.   And we know we're operating the trigger correctly when it does not disturb the sight alignment. So, we're still looking at the front sight.  Its an operation, observation and feedback process.  

Our only real decisions are when to start the trigger (and when to abort during slow fire if the shot doesn't develop properly).  Sustained fire strings are just 6 trigger operations in a row (the 6th one shouldn't do anything except let you know the slide is back) while focusing on the front sight.  If the gun is aligned (front and rear sights), we can move the gun a couple of inches up or down and still shoot 10's.  If the the gun has any angle of misalignment, then we're going to be shooting a lot worse than 9's..... 

CR

CR10X

Posts : 1735
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty Re: 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by DA/SA 1/26/2020, 8:39 pm

Back to work...

Thanks!
DA/SA
DA/SA

Posts : 957
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 66
Location : Southeast Florida

Back to top Go down

22 scores suffering from 45 Empty Re: 22 scores suffering from 45

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum