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Post by Gary Collette on 1/28/2020, 4:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

OK
I have a Pardini Bullseye for rimfire and found a decent 1911 for 45.
now for centerfire 
Options seem to be a 32 cal conversion for the Pardini
A dedicated 32 cal. pistol
32 seems to get mixed reviews for long line.
Or what others?
9MM 1911
38 in a model 52 ?
38 super 1911 ??
I am open to any and all options.

G

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Post by James Hensler on 1/30/2020, 7:05 am

Dave I get that you can make them group! For the most part so could I but in the wind they suck! So a guy has to spend 2400-2700 for his Pardini then another 450 for your custom barrel to get these results?
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Post by james r chapman on 1/30/2020, 7:07 am

James Hensler wrote:Dave I get that you can make them group! For the most part so could I but in the wind they suck!
Any explanation for that?
Wind.
ACP=good
LONG=bad
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Post by croesler on 1/30/2020, 7:26 am

I'd like to see evidence that .32 ACP - in a noticeable headwind or side-wind - doesn't also suck?   I bet it does.  I'd defer to those who have actually tested this and know.  I'd go on to theorize even a .45 downloaded for wadgun is going to suffer in the wind.  Maybe not to the degree a flat-nosed .32 wadcutter does, but I doubt 2670 was shot on a windy crappy day.  I wasn't there, we'd have to ask Mr. Anderson about that.  For a noticeable diminution for .32 SWL its probably 15 mph+.  Show me a target like Dave's shot with a .32 ACP in a 20 mph wind and the matter is rested.
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Post by James Hensler on 1/30/2020, 7:28 am

The S&W Long is slower 720’s versus 950’ A wadcutter has always had issues in windy conditions! Several Hammerli and 52 shooters bring their pistols but if it get windy they shoot their 45’s. Yes their 45’s are just as slow but the projectile is more aerodynamic and cuts through the air. The 32 ACP is aerodynamic and faster therefore very slight adjustments are need even in very windy days
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Post by lablover on 1/30/2020, 7:30 am

centerfire pistol - Page 2 1960973398
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Post by croesler on 1/30/2020, 7:31 am

Lets see the targets at 50 yds.
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Post by James Hensler on 1/30/2020, 7:33 am

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Her is one in the heat of battle from the 2019 Nationals at Camp Perry! When has it never been windy up there?
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Post by croesler on 1/30/2020, 7:36 am

If shot on the 3rd relay I concede.  If 1st or 2nd, then no concession because it wasn't windy.
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Post by James Hensler on 1/30/2020, 7:40 am

croesler wrote:If shot on the 3rd relay I concede.  If 1st or 2nd, then no concession because it wasn't windy.
It was shot on the 3rd and it was very windy! As you can see the group was 2-3 clicks off to the right! I shot the X’s the first few shots so I didn’t make the dope change. If you remember the wind was blowing left to right
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Post by Gary Collette on 1/30/2020, 7:45 am

These reply's are helpful.
I am just starting to consider options and want to see if there are any I have not considered.
Match guns sounds good however in live in MA so my options are limited by that too.
32 being poor in the wind is not a big deal in my opinion.
If the day was windy I could stick with the 45 and a long line JHP load I guess.
Again, just starting to look and ask questions.
Thanks, G

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Post by James Hensler on 1/30/2020, 7:46 am

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I don’t see a 32 S&W Long shooter on this list
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Post by croesler on 1/30/2020, 7:53 am

I don't see any other experts either!  Nice shooting James!
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Post by James Hensler on 1/30/2020, 7:57 am

croesler wrote:I don't see any other experts either!  Nice shooting James!
Thanks! I almost decided to shoot my 45 that day! My relays went 2,3,1 and my wife said shoot the 32! I shot 35X’s and if I shot my 45 I wouldn’t have shot 850! Now I am hoping once I get it back from Doug I have a quality 45 to try to improve on!
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Post by radjag on 1/30/2020, 9:11 am

James Hensler wrote:James Hensler wrote:-
My scores are 875/22 870/32 and 840/45.

2585 = 95.74%
You sound just like me - an Expert who gets accused of sand-bagging when I shoot a Master score lol!

My excuse is that I've been on a fairly steep learning curve since starting Bullseye at the start of last season - we shall see what this season brings.

My mentor advises me strongly to practise more with the 45 and even use the 45 as a CF gun in competition till I can shoot it well enough to get promoted to Master or higher. I get the point and I believe that option is best for most folks. Many High Masters only shoot a 22 and 45 - who am I to argue with that fact.

BUT - finding the ultimate CF gun/ammo has become something of a quest for the "Holy Grail" now and I'm determined to explore several more options this year - hopefully I won't end up reverting to the sage advice and only shoot 22+45. If I do there will be a lot of very nice guns and reloading equipment up for grabs on this forum - stay tuned!

P.S. +1 on having the Pardini's both set to CF weight - Vladimir of Pardini USA made the same recommendation and I'm waiting to get them both back from him with those settings (I totally messed mine up and wanted them put back to standard by an expert before I mess them up again Embarassed Embarassed).

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Post by James Hensler on 1/30/2020, 9:49 am

I was a Master in the early 90’s but took time away from the sport! I have been back for 2 full seasons with 2020 as my 3rd. I am 51 and my eyes aren’t as sharp as the old days! I only shoot state and regional matches so I have to be on point every time! My goal is to bypass master and go straight from Expert to high master! If all starts this April at Dixie
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Post by messenger on 1/30/2020, 9:59 am

radjag wrote:
James Hensler wrote:James Hensler wrote:-
My scores are 875/22 870/32 and 840/45.

2585 = 95.74%
You sound just like me - an Expert who gets accused of sand-bagging when I shoot a Master score lol!

My excuse is that I've been on a fairly steep learning curve since starting Bullseye at the start of last season - we shall see what this season brings.

My mentor advises me strongly to practise more with the 45 and even use the 45 as a CF gun in competition till I can shoot it well enough to get promoted to Master or higher. I get the point and I believe that option is best for most folks. Many High Masters only shoot a 22 and 45 - who am I to argue with that fact.

BUT - finding the ultimate CF gun/ammo has become something of a quest for the "Holy Grail" now and I'm determined to explore several more options this year - hopefully I won't end up reverting to the sage advice and only shoot 22+45. If I do there will be a lot of very nice guns and reloading equipment up for grabs on this forum - stay tuned!

P.S. +1 on having the Pardini's both set to CF weight - Vladimir of Pardini USA made the same recommendation and I'm waiting to get them both back from him with those settings (I totally messed mine up and wanted them put back to standard by an expert before I mess them up again Embarassed Embarassed).


Don't sell them. We are both the same age. I have gone back to shooting 45 in CF only because I have not mastered the 45. A time will come for both of us where shooting the 45 for both CF and 45 will be tough. My 32  S&WL / 32 ACP and 38 Super will come out then. They will be sold when I'm in the ground.

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Post by Slartybartfast on 1/30/2020, 10:01 am

Gary Collette wrote:Robert84101
With all due respect can I suggest you need to slow down.

With all due respect I think this is awful generic advice that I've often seen in this forum. Much like the immediate jump to telling people to start reloading.

Robert84101, take the advice for pistols that are reliable and have good triggers. Get an idea of types and calibres shot by those that take the sport very seriously. Try before you buy if you can. Then, buy what you'd love to have. If you want to have fun, shoot what you want to shoot for the three 900s. You have a great .22 and a good 45. So you're already good to go. Shoot the 45 for CF if you don't get a CF pistol, or find you can score better with the 45.

My observations on the "correct" path (and disjointed thoughts that hit me reading "slow down" and "chill"):

I for one enjoy the simple sport of shooting any and all pistols I have on my own or with friends at the range and I enjoy matches for the travel, meeting people, and the atmosphere/challenge of match day regardless of how well I do. Could I become much better if I concentrated and took on rigorous training regimen? Absolutely. Would I have as much fun? No. Would I do better with handloads? Perhaps. Do I have a desire to learn it or invest the the time now? No.

Why are other shooting sports growing while bullseye stagnates? Because interested participants in those sports are encouraged to buy any one of a number of firearms, take minimal introductory courses (those that require qualifications for holster use for example), and then encourage you to sign up.

My first match I shot .22 only 2700, service pistol, and DR all with borrowed firearms. By my second I was shooting .22 only 2700 on Saturday and full 2700 with three pistols on Sunday with my own pistols that I had never fired at 50 yards before. I hadn't even fired my 45 a single time before travelling with it and it had fixed sights. First target I only put a single shot on target and scored a 6. Found I had to shoot a foot above and off to the right of the target frame to get hits.

If I had given up on the 45 because it was received so late and shot a single .22 only 2700 I would have not enjoyed a whole weekend as I did. If I had shot 2 days of .22 only it would have simply been tedious.

Next match is coming up and the amount of practice I've managed to put in is pathetic and I haven't found a gun smith that can even just change my 45s sights yet. Couldn't care less, come what may I plan to repeat the enjoyable experience I had last fall. Next time the DR comes up, I'm going to give the match organisers a challenge. Travelled with, but did not shoot my Chiappa Rhino last time. Was first time anyone there had seen one. They liked the trigger and the way it shoots but started a bit of a debate as to whether it was even allowed.

If your idea of fun is slow progress, determined practice, and only moving up when you've "earned" it and want to diligently work towards high master, follow the advice of those that say shoot nothing but a basic .22 until you're cleaning targets. Then follow the accepted path of 45 purchase (and which to purchase), upgrades, tuning, and load development. For some that is ALL the fun. Good for them. For others it's the discipline of training and progressing. Good for them too.

Ask yourself what kind of competitor you are, the reasons you're interested in the sport and attending matches, and what would make the experience most enjoyable for you.

Personally, I'm going to keep being the idiot hack having fun and scoring mid pack in the results. While shooting full load midrange factory ammunition. And while I work up a sweat controlling recoil, and the others on the line shake their head at the noise and recoil from my pistol (and offer me their handloads to try), I'm doing it with a huge grin on my face. My biggest point to work on for matches IMO is my after match game so that I'm meeting up with others and not alone in the barracks or off eating by myself in the evening.

I am contemplating spending 1900 Euros for a handcrafted Sport CZ97 in 45 with a 9mm conversion (so unfortunate you can get a .22 conversion for the CZ75 and not the CZ97) and selling my CZ97B to get back some of the $1k it cost me (decent deal in Canadian bucks for a CZ97B). Why? Because I like the base pistol and a 6" version with custom slide, gorgeous custom finish, heavily worked on trigger, and integrated Aristocrat sights just seems so cool. Maybe also get a Matchguns MG2 to replace my .22 FAS.

Maybe some combination of retiring, finally being frustrated my scores aren't improving or are slipping, or some competitive bug hitting me will drive me towards more serious development. Before then, I may pick up the badge development program I was doing with the first club I was member at again. But for this sport to survive, or hopefully thrive, it needs enthusiastic participants. And I'm happy to be on the line and enjoying myself.

Hockey, baseball, football, soccer are popular and successful not because everyone buys the best equipment and trains to be the next biggest star. They're popular and successful because hoards of people can get the bare minimum and have fun for the simple sport of it or pretending they can be the best. And those that take it a bit more seriously have a multitude of levels and approaches to participate.
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Post by James Hensler on 1/30/2020, 10:23 am

Let us know how you like your 97! The ones on the website are works of art!
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Post by Slartybartfast on 1/30/2020, 11:07 am

James Hensler wrote:Let us know how you like your 97! The ones on the website are works of art!
Just have the standard CZ97B for now and love it.
Have the Nils grips for it, but there's a fitting issue.

The Sport ones truly look like works of art. Bought the magazine bases from that company and they're gorgeous for what they are (the fit was a bit tight).

https://www.waffen-oschatz.de/cz-97-sport/

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