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To shoe or not to shoe (a 1911 trigger)?

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SingleActionAndrew
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Jon Eulette
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To shoe or not to shoe (a 1911 trigger)? Empty To shoe or not to shoe (a 1911 trigger)?

Post by croesler Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:31 am

Interested to hear opinions about what putting a trigger shoe on a 1911 accomplished, or what unexpected negative consequences tend to arise, or maybe it doesn't make any difference?  I find the shoe provides a feeling of a lighter trigger pull, but that is one shooter's amateurish observation.
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Post by Jon Eulette Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:09 am

I shot a trigger shoe for many years. Now only on one of my pistols. Really no difference in my opinion, just different. I do have to pull the trigger a little different not to disturb the sight alignment. A shoe typically lengthens by one size; medium trigger plus shoe equals a large standard trigger. So a shoe doesn’t magically alter shooting for most shooters but can make huge difference for others. Also can change the way a trigger pull feels. I have experienced standard trigger feeling short roll and not being able to feel the roll with a shoe on same pistol. Everybody should try one at least once seriously.
Jon
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Post by DA/SA Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:20 am

Large hands and long fingers. I use a shoe to move the trigger foreword to a comfortable distance.

I like the feel of the added width as well.
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Post by Bigtrout Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:06 am

FWIW.  Fronek shoes on my 1911 and revolver seem to help the trigger feel lighter and more comfortable than the narrow stock triggers.
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Post by LenV Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:32 am

Only my Gold Cup doesn't have a shoe.

To shoe or not to shoe (a 1911 trigger)? Match_19
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Post by Kp321 Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:44 am

I know that this is a bullseye forum but, trigger shoes on 1911's should only be used on bullseye guns. Some shoes extend outside the trigger guard and can cause ND's if holstered.

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Post by croesler Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:52 am

With a few good responses to reflect on, here is what I'm noticing to add color to my original post.  First, I struggle with the 1911 platform and have determined my trigger pull is most of the problem.  Following the sage advice available on the forum, steady pressure increasing consistently until the trigger breaks (classic dry-firing practice) has been working.  I put a MANTIS X on my 1911 magazine, a dummy round in the chamber, and test my trigger actuation using the MantisX results to isolate slapping, wrist breaking etc.  Or just lousy trigger work.  What Ive found, but not range tested (yet), is that while I like the feel of the shoe much better, the Mantis is telling me I'm decidedly worse when using it.  I could be I was getting used to the thinner trigger, or the feel of the stout weight, and something has changed by adding the shoe.  But, whereas I had increased my average to about 95 with the plain trigger, my average with the Mantis is about 92-93.  95 wasn't good enough to begin with.  I'm wondering if the shoes I've got on order are only going to screw me up... 

Or maybe I just need to get used to it.
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Post by mhayford45 Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:40 am

I did not find a shoe to be of any real advantage. I shot about the same score with or without. So, I guess I agree with Jon as I did find that the shoe masked my roll a bit and as the shoe is much wider I did notice a bit more side pressure on the trigger shoe edge.

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Post by bruce martindale Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:40 am

I think grip is a big part of trigger control. I was inconsistent with the 45 partly from 3 sources of motion...1 the natural wobble, 2 the trigger induced motion before ignition, and 3, the effects of recoil before bullet left the barrel. Of late, Extending fingers around the frontstrap gave a better compression grip and better trigger control for me. This works with smaller grips like slabs. I can't hold onto orthos.

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Post by SingleActionAndrew Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:06 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:[...] Also can change the way a trigger pull feels. I have experienced standard trigger feeling short roll and not being able to feel the roll with a shoe on same pistol. Everybody should try one at least once seriously.
Jon

I'm looking at shoes (emailed Frank) because my grip on my RRA 1911 causes discomfort on my trigger finger where my joint is pushed into the adjustment screw recess on the trigger face.  30 seconds per shot of firm grip followthrough on dry fire at the wall hold exercises leaves a long lasting imprint and I don't want doing this every evening to actually hurt my shooting by getting an injured trigger finger.

My concern with the shoe as I'm reading is that it might change more of the trigger than just filling in that hole. I don't want a lighter or less interactive trigger pull. It's perfect as it is. I could see more added benefit for the long training sessions if the shoe softens the face edges of the trigger too, as long I still get to call it a ball gun...

Thinking of alternatives... the trigger is otherwise perfect and fit to the pistol so I don't want to replace it. I'm also not willing right now to put JB weld over the overtravel port. Unless perhaps with lube on the trigger to make a removable plug ... are there any other alternatives?

Is there a way to order a shoe that might less affect the perceived trigger pull? Avoid aluminum bronze? Stipple?

Thanks for ideas
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Post by Froneck Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:23 pm

I have had the Ace shoe on my 1911, took them off and they sat in my box. One day my other son Frank Jr. asked Adam at Perry about his trigger, seems the pull length was kinda short so he recommended trying a shoe. I gave him one of the 2 I had in my box and he liked it. So I put one back on my 1911 and liked it too though I could not remember why I removed it. Together we searched commercial row but trigger shoes could not be found, they were no longer made. Later when I returned home I decided to make a shoe. I didn't like the stubby height of the Ace so I made the shoe the same height as the trigger less a few thousandths. I skipped putting in the serrations so I could test the shoe. Worked Great! So I made another but added the serrations, when I tested it I did not like the feel! Removed the serrations and it was great as the first one I made. Soon others at my club wanted the shoe. Later I was asked by a non bullseye shooter to make one that was Gold Colored simply because he wanted the Gold Color. Having Aluminum Bronze I use it but when testing it found it felt better than the Blued Steel. The Standard Shoe I make is the same width as the old ACE 17/32" (.532") However I can make them as wide as 7/16" (.438"). Thinner shoes are more work so they add cost but not much. Anyone that purchase a wide shoe and returns it will have the full price applied to one that has less width.
Now Aluminum Bronze is the most requested material. Because the AMU smith can only work or change AMU guns they would not add shoes because of weight.Though the shoe only is 1/4 of an ounce. I made a shoe for Adam from Titanium that was only 1/7th of an ounce so they attached it to Adams guns, also made one for his Bianchi Cup type Actions gun but the width is very narrow, rule required a shoe not to be wider than the trigger guard.
 Simply put a trigger shoe should not be used on guns that are not used in Bullseye style matches where the gun is never loaded until Range Officer gives the OK. Wide shoe will defeat the function of a trigger guard!
 BTW if anyone is looking for a Standard Aluminum Bronze shoe for solid 1911 trigger Champions Choice has them cheaper than I currently sell them since they purchased a few quite a while ago before the material cost went up. Little work with a file can make them fit all but the very short triggers.

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Post by rich.tullo Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:26 pm

I love you shoes and I pay the current price because they are so good however on service pistol I seem to like no she better
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Post by Arthur Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:29 pm

I have two shoes Frank made and adjusted for me. Shot with them, pulled off for a year and but back on. The only way to tell if it's good for you personally is to give it a good try. Reduces the perceived trigger weight for me. Both guns have service pistol weight triggers.  
Frank is a good guy to work with. 

Best regards, 
Arthur

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Post by RoyDean Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:14 pm

Frank is definitely "Mr. Shoe". His products are outstanding.

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Post by SingleActionAndrew Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:46 am

Thank you all for your perspectives on The Shoe. I've gone ahead and ordered his standard aluminum bronze one from Frank per his recommendation for my 3-hole and look forward to seeing how it goes.
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Post by SingleActionAndrew Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:35 am

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Post by SingleActionAndrew Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:37 am

I ordered two of Frank's shoes last Friday and they arrived yesterday evening (1 business day, over the weekend). Thank you Frank!

The make is very attractive and it was easy to install.  It was a perfect fit, with the exact height of the existing trigger (doesn't drag on frame).  I certainly shouldn't have to worry about injuring my trigger finger.
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