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Checking if a concept I read about here several years ago is still valid.

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John Dervis
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Checking if a concept I read about here several years ago is still valid. Empty Checking if a concept I read about here several years ago is still valid.

Post by mikemyers 2/10/2020, 6:47 pm

Years ago, when I was very new here, I remember a discussion where someone (CR10X ?) suggested that if you hold your sights over a target, your wobble area will slowly decrease in size, then start getting larger.  When the blur was smallest was the suggested time to fire.  

Is this concept as true today as it was three or four years ago?

This is very noticeable when I'm dry firing.  With my red dot centered over my target, the diameter of the blur shrinks for a while, settles, and then seems to start growing in size.

(.....and as a related question, is this change in the wobble size most likely because your muscles get tired, or because you're holding your breath, so there's no new oxygen?)

(There is a second question, but I'll wait to ask it..........)
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Post by John Dervis 2/10/2020, 8:24 pm

Yes this is true.  It is mostly caused by the fatigue in muscles from holding too long.  It is best to start your trigger press/squeeze/pull when you begin your hold and the gun will fire when that wobble area is at its smallest.  If you wait until the right time to consciously fire, you will likely jerk your shot. 

Bring on the second question.
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Post by mikemyers 2/11/2020, 8:30 am

John Dervis wrote:........It is best to start your trigger press/squeeze/pull when you begin your hold and the gun will fire when that wobble area is at its smallest.  If you wait until the right time to consciously fire, you will likely jerk your shot......
Well, that is my question.  Brian Zins explained in detail how you start pressing on the trigger before you finish aiming, so I've been doing that.  For me, it seems like when the dot is over the target, the "wobble" is not yet at its minimum size.  

(My solution until now has been to apply pressure to the trigger more slowly, so hopefully the wobble will be at its smallest when the gun fires.  For the reason you noted, I would prefer not to "wait".  The reasoning behind Brian's advice is so the pressure is constantly on the trigger, and won't cause the gun to get misaligned again because of that pressure, and the reasoning behind the original advice I assume is so you can shoot at the time your wobble is smallest.)

Dry-firing seems to be improving everything; if I wasn't dry-firing so much, I'd never have noticed this, to even ask the question here.
As the wobble gets smaller, so does the group size.  Maybe I just mis-understood Brian, and I have just been applying too much pressure too soon - so the dot is in place ready to shoot before the wobble has settled down to the smallest size (and before the wobble increases again).
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Post by james r chapman 2/11/2020, 8:45 am

Zins also uses a loooong roll on his trigger.
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Post by Oleg G 2/11/2020, 10:14 am

Mike,

If you follow the link to the Encyclopedia of Bullseye from the front page of our forum, you will come to the AMU Marksmanship guide. Read chapter 1, "Minimum Arc of Movement." The concept is explained in detail with an accompanying chart.

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/chapter1.htm

The main idea is to execute the shot while your wobble is shrinking but NOT to wait until you see it at its minimum. As you know, it takes time for information to get from the eye to the brain and then for the brain to process the input and issue the command back to your muscles. Therefore, when you PERCEIVE the minimum wobble, in reality, the minimum has passed and your wobble is getting larger.
Therefore, as Zins teaches, you have to start and finish your trigger press while you see your wobble area getting smaller. Do NOT try to catch the MOMENT of the minimum wobble. If you do that, you negate the entire principle of area aiming - trying to catch a moment in time of the minimum wobble is tantamount to trying to catch the moment when your sights (dot) are in the very center of the X. Neither will result in a good shot.
As many people here have said, an early shot is ALWAYS better than a late shot. In this case, the early shot is the one completed while your wobble area is decreasing, not necessarily trying to catch its minimum.

Regards,
Oleg.
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Post by Jon Eulette 2/11/2020, 11:41 am

james r chapman wrote:Zins also uses a loooong roll on his trigger.
That’s a myth. Closer to a medium roll. Yes I’ve dry fired the pistol.
Jon
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Post by james r chapman 2/11/2020, 12:32 pm

Ok a meeeedium roll
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Post by Jon Eulette 2/11/2020, 1:34 pm

HAAAAAAAH!!!
Jon
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Post by DA/SA 2/11/2020, 2:36 pm

Oleg G wrote:Mike,

If you follow the link to the Encyclopedia of Bullseye from the front page of our forum, you will come to the AMU Marksmanship guide. Read chapter 1, "Minimum Arc of Movement." The concept is explained in detail with an accompanying chart.

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/chapter1.htm

Thank you for that!
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Post by mikemyers 2/11/2020, 3:30 pm

Thanks, I agree!    :-)

.....and as to the roll, please make mine an Onion.
You're making me hungry!
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