what does anyone know about FREE PISTOLS?

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Post by r.tornello on 3/6/2020, 3:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

I enjoy single shot shooting as well as autoloaders, but single shot is like shooting slow fire or bench-rest with a pistol. I know Pardini made them once upon a time, and so did the Soviets.

Does anyone have anything they can tell me what to watch for, recommended models and anything else? I don't intend to compete, just shoot at the range a couple of days a week. 

Thanks,

Rick Tornello
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Post by swissyhawk on 3/7/2020, 1:50 pm

If I showed up at a free pistol match with my Pardini SP would I be allowed to shoot?   Would I get laughed off the range?

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Post by Sa-tevp on 3/7/2020, 1:51 pm

Some free free pistol info.

From the Pilkguns Hitch Hiker's Guide to Shooting Glory collection, Free Pistol  http://www.pilkguns.com/c17-shtml/  

A good discussion of various free pistols https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/very-high-accuracy-22-handguns-incl-free-pistols.236090/

Igor's blog http://toz35.blogspot.com/search/label/toz-35

There have been a few times when I have time available and using a website translator and found Russian, Ukrainian and other target shooting web forums like ours. 

An example of a Soviet club poster from a Russian Forum: https://popgun.ru/viewtopic.php?t=452773&start=650

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Post by Sa-tevp on 3/7/2020, 1:59 pm

swissyhawk wrote:If I showed up at a free pistol match with my Pardini SP would I be allowed to shoot?   Would I get laughed off the range?

Usually you can shoot anything as long as it is loaded one shot at a time. A neat feature of Hammerli X-esses is the users manual specifically discusses single shot loading without a magazine, as the extractor can ride over the rim. Some pistols cannot do this. When I put a Volquartsen extractor in my S&W M41 I reshaped the back of the extractor to allow this. We've had people compete with Ruger MK-whatevers with single loaded magazines.
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Post by smsnyder on 3/7/2020, 2:36 pm

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/859951202

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Post by smsnyder on 3/7/2020, 2:37 pm

What is that tube on top of this pistol for?

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Post by r.tornello on 3/7/2020, 2:43 pm

yeah, weights
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Post by Ed Hall on 3/7/2020, 2:47 pm

Just a few notes in jumbled order:

-- There is a cosmetic difference between a TOZ-35 and a TOZ 35M, just in case someone is wondering why the guards, forends and front sights look different.  Beyond, cosmetic, the 35M has an elongated trigger guard.  When I shoot my 35, I rest my finger on the outside front of the guard until I'm ready to fire.  I've wondered if I would be able to do this with the 35M.

-- It is commonly joked about, that the factory grips are shipped in a solid wooden crate that has to be removed by Dremel to get to the grips.  Nygord's Notes include a couple good articles on grip shaping.  A proper fitting grip can/will make a huge difference in score.

-- Grip tension can/will make a huge difference in score.

-- The loading block is normally actuated by a lever in the base of the grip, but there is a modification that moves that lever up higher.  I don't remember the particulars, but you might find that mod if you're reviewing TOZ 35/Ms.

-- For my TOZ 35, I needed to work on the sights as well as the grip.  Machining was a little less than precise.  In fact, the top of my front sight was not square with the sides (which consequently meant it wasn't a straight line with the rear sight) when I got mine.

-- I never needed any spare parts, and was expecting to get anything needed from Larry's, so I don't know if Cardinal will pick up that area as well, but hope so.

-- The rear sight blades on mine included a half moon opening as well as the standard square cut notch.  I found that to be an interesting configuration.

-- I, too, shot Free Pistol with auto loaders, one shot loaded at a time, prior to getting my TOZ.  I left an empty magazine in the gun, so the bolt/slide would lock back and loaded each round directly into the chamber.

-- CDNN Sports used to be a good source for TOZ 35s a number of years ago, but you had to contact them direct about inventory.  They weren't shown on the site.  They might have been in the catalog.

-- I also heard lots of trouble stories about electronic triggers, but never shot any.  A lot of top shooters did, though.

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Post by smsnyder on 3/7/2020, 2:52 pm

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/856058801   You have to be a carpenter to do this grip. Even comes with a water bottle in case you get tired holding the pistol up for 2 hours .LOL

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Post by tray999 on 3/7/2020, 3:39 pm

swissyhawk wrote:If I showed up at a free pistol match with my Pardini SP would I be allowed to shoot?   Would I get laughed off the range?

Swissyhawk,

Go to Fairfax Rod and Gun calendar, find Free Pistol (2nd Saturday of the month) and click on it.   This will bring up the contact info, give him a call and ask.   

Are you shooting at the NRA in the Bullseye league?
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Post by swissyhawk on 3/7/2020, 4:47 pm

tray999 wrote:
swissyhawk wrote:If I showed up at a free pistol match with my Pardini SP would I be allowed to shoot?   Would I get laughed off the range?

Swissyhawk,

Go to Fairfax Rod and Gun calendar, find Free Pistol (2nd Saturday of the month) and click on it.   This will bring up the contact info, give him a call and ask.   

Are you shooting at the NRA in the Bullseye league?
I used to shoot in that league.  I moved and now it’s no longer feasible for me to get there.  I do shoot at some of the Fairfax bullseye matches.

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Post by Jon Eulette on 3/7/2020, 6:22 pm

I had an Army issue Hammerli’s 150, 152 & 160. They all three light striked or didn’t go bang on many occasions. 152 & 160 are electronic triggers; hated them because of lack of reliability. Stuck with the Toz. I shot for years with gripping issues. In 94 I visited Morini in Switzerland and had grips made. My first match with new grips I had 29 10’s. Made a huge difference. Zurek’s Morini electronic trigger died in the middle of a World Cup. I just prefer not to go there. 
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Post by bruce martindale on 3/7/2020, 7:42 pm

I had a Hammerli 152 electronic , a 160 special and a TOZ. The Toz fit me better and didn't have too much wrist droop. I believe in moderate grip pressure on these and you can't do it with a dropped wrist angle. My best score was a 542 at Olympic trials 2003 and have medalled last couple years at nra sectionals. I could never control the 152 electronic trigger well nor could I adjust it. No parts are available now. The Toz is fixable if anything breaks and light strikes are solved with new revolver springs. Good luck

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Post by bruce martindale on 3/7/2020, 7:44 pm

On national level, during my play, it was the toz and the morini cm84. Everything else, also rans.

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Post by tray999 on 3/7/2020, 8:14 pm

I think Keith Anderson was still using a TOZ 35m when shooting on the US Olympic team although he was not shooting Free Pistol events......
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Post by r.tornello on 3/8/2020, 9:14 am

another general question. I assume the TOZ is still being produced or are there a ton of them out there hiding in warehouses?
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Post by Sa-tevp on 3/8/2020, 12:18 pm

r.tornello wrote:another general question. I assume the TOZ is still being produced or are there a ton of them out there hiding in warehouses?

TOZ-35 production started in 1962 and the Soviet team started using them. TOZ-35M production started in 1978 and ended in 1992. The practice appeared to be make a bunch of units and send them to clubs. The club would issue one to a shooter and the armorer/coach would clean up the pistol and fit the grip. After Perestroika, clubs in the former Soviet Union put their un-issued and issued pistols on the market, which is why the pistols seem to show up on the market in batches. I don't know how many each club might have had on hand.

http://www.shooting-ua.com/books/book_1.htm

www.shooting-ua.com/arm-books/arm_book_82.htm

www.shooting-ua.com/books/book_279.htm
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Post by Mike M. on 3/8/2020, 3:43 pm

There are a slew of Toz-35Ms on the market for ~$500 each.  Which is about half what I bought mine for...although I got mine through Don Nygord, who went over the gun, tweaked it, and fitted Morini grips.  Still, the Toz is the cheapest option...if nothing else, you can get two guns, set one up for competition, and use the other for spares.

And I would not count FP out as an Olympic discipline.  It'll be back, I suspect.  In one form or another.

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Post by r.tornello on 3/8/2020, 3:59 pm

Thanks on all that.
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Post by r.tornello on 3/9/2020, 1:48 pm

The Pardini's are out. They don't support the K50 or others.

There are some of the "current" models available in Italy but  more $$$$$$ than I wanted to spend on an FP. And there too again, Pardini may or may not discontinue support.

It was recommended that I NOT purchase their FPs due in part to the above mentioned, but if I insisted they would see if import was possible.

I'm just considering what some of you all do and I have been doing, just keep shooting one round at a time and be happy with 150 feet. I have no intention of competing any more, just enjoying the art.

Still, I have to think about a TOZ.

Thanks all.

RT
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Post by r.tornello on 3/27/2020, 12:51 pm

I just ordered a TOZ-35M, some grips that might need work and a balance/weight bar as shown. It will be fun to bench my S&W with the barrels I have and the TOZ to see the difference. Dot against steel, hmmm. I have a feeling there's a way to DOT the TOZ. Not sure yet. But first I'll play it as it is.

I did the same with my P210-6. I centered the dot 3.5 Docter and a lower 6 PM for the steel. It works for me.
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