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Loading the best possible HBWC

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Post by orpheoet 4/12/2020, 10:27 am

I have 2K of the Remington HBWC that I've been sitting on for a few years. I want to do them justice as far getting the best accuracy out of them knowing there likely wont be more. My undertanding is that new brass is not ideal due to the larger diameter of the bullet. I'm happy with the accuracy I get with 2.7 WST and Zero HBWC. Is that a proven load with the Remington?
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Post by JIMPGOV 4/12/2020, 11:34 am

YES !! 2.7 WST IS ABOUT THE BEST. JP

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Post by bruce martindale 4/12/2020, 12:35 pm

Only thing you could add to it is to use a cannelure tool at the midwaist like the factory does. I have the tool but lack the motivation...

Oh, and to be sure you have wadcutter brass.

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Post by Wobbley 4/12/2020, 1:24 pm

“Wadcutter brass”. I never found any even from Wadcutter ammo.   

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t13335-38-sp-brass-for-wadcutters#117438

See my post in the link.  

Just avoid “+P” brass.
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Post by PhotoEscape 4/12/2020, 1:47 pm

Here is illustration of the difference between 38 Wadcutter and regular 38 Special cases.Loading the best possible HBWC Img_4015New Remington with dual band is no different then regular 38.  Old Remington measures the same as Fiocchi you see below.  Taper inside of the case starts about 0.200" deeper.
Loading the best possible HBWC Img_4014



Loading the best possible HBWC Img_4015
Loading the best possible HBWC Img_4014
Loading the best possible HBWC Img_4016


Last edited by PhotoEscape on 4/12/2020, 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : explanation)
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Post by straybrit 4/12/2020, 3:21 pm

Even the normal (i.e. not the +P) brass has the taper too far up. Precision Delta (who seem to have a good reputation for factory loaded rounds) get their cases from Starline. I have 1000 of each and can confirm that they have a much higher taper than the 'old' wadcutter brass. I'm pretty sure after much searching that low taper brass cases are no longer manufactured. If anyone knows differently please let me know.

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Post by Wobbley 4/12/2020, 3:33 pm

Some of these cases are old,  some are newer production but these represent a lot of different manufacturers both from Wadcutter and non-Wadcutter ammunition.  From these measurements I would not want to assert that there’s a “special” brass made for Wadcutter ammunition.  There isn’t.
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Post by Dcforman 4/12/2020, 4:04 pm

Hey Wobbley, what is the "end of cyl depth" measurement? Not sure I understand it. Cylinder length is length from the mouth of the brass until you see a change in wall thickness?

Thanks!

Dave

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Post by PhotoEscape 4/12/2020, 4:05 pm

straybrit wrote:Even the normal (i.e. not the +P) brass has the taper too far up. Precision Delta (who seem to have a good reputation for factory loaded rounds) get their cases from Starline. I have 1000 of each and can confirm that they have a much higher taper than the 'old' wadcutter brass. I'm pretty sure after much searching that low taper brass cases are no longer manufactured. If anyone knows differently please let me know.
Today this would be probably the best bet to obtain full wadcutter specific brass, - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1000192977?pid=136172

Word of warning though.  This ammo isn't designed for semi-autos but rather for revolvers.  At least that was my experience when I bought it several years ago.  However brass is quite good.  I re-used it loading Remington 148gr. HBWC multiple times.  I also don't know if current production is any different brass wise from what I bought.

AP
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Post by Wobbley 4/12/2020, 5:00 pm

Dcforman wrote:Hey Wobbley, what is the "end of cyl depth" measurement? Not sure I understand it. Cylinder length is length from the mouth of the brass until you see a change in wall thickness?

Thanks!

Dave
The measurement and method was described here.

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t13335-38-sp-brass-for-wadcutters#117438  

As for Fiocchi...what I found was that it was accurate  but it didn’t cycle my 52 so I never bought much of it.  However, I believe that S&W ammunition was made in the old ALCAN facility and may have had some connections to Fiocchi, dunno.  But, note that the “Peters” cases are identical with the modern made Remington Wadcutter ammo which shot fine in my pistol.  Also note that the “+P” from Winchester has a shorter cylinder portion.  I didn’t notice much accuracy degradation when i shot Wadcutter reloads with it?  I have shot and loaded Magtech CBC brass and S&B brass and noticed no significant difference except the bullets required more force to seat into CBC than S&B or Federal.  They shot the same so .?.?
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Post by WesG 4/12/2020, 5:34 pm

Note my comment in that post about my new Starline brass being deep enough for Rem HBWC.

I have an assortment of vintage brass. Some of it seems deeper than others, and some seem to stop a gauge pin at the cannelure. Whether the taper starts there, or it's the remnants of the cannelure I can't say.

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Post by orpheoet 4/12/2020, 6:17 pm

Well…..I'm back where I started. I don't think I know enough or have adequate equipment to do a good job. I'll sit on the Remingtons a bit longer and just load the Zero's.
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Post by Wobbley 4/12/2020, 8:11 pm

WesG wrote:Note my comment in that post about my new Starline brass being deep enough for Rem HBWC.

I have an assortment of vintage brass. Some of it seems deeper than others, and some seem to stop a gauge pin at the cannelure. Whether the taper starts there, or it's the remnants of the cannelure I can't say.
Which is why I chose the method I did.  I’m presuming that the case is cylindrical even after firing, which may not be correct, but taper in a standard chamber is minimal.  I can feel a residual of the canellure when the indicator rides over it.  Whether it stops your pin or not I can’t say.
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Post by james r chapman 4/12/2020, 8:45 pm

orpheoet wrote:Well…..I'm back where I started. I don't think I know enough or have adequate equipment to do a good job. I'll sit on the Remingtons a bit longer and just load the Zero's.
I'm sitting on mine, and just loading the Stars......

But those Remingtons shot x's from damn near anything...
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Post by Wobbley 4/12/2020, 9:38 pm

orpheoet wrote:Well…..I'm back where I started. I don't think I know enough or have adequate equipment to do a good job. I'll sit on the Remingtons a bit longer and just load the Zero's.
Well, I’m sorry if my posts are adding to your confusion.  But what I would do is take some of those Remmy Wadcutters and load them.  I’d load them in unsized cases.  And I’d load some in sized cases.  See what the difference is..  2.6-2.9 Bullseye, same in WST, or 2.5 x2.7 Red Dot....25 of each... and have fun.
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Post by bruce martindale 4/13/2020, 1:50 pm

I am saving the hbwc for the long line and shooting cast at 25. I also just found & bought a 10 cavity H&G #50 mould to boot!

To add confusion, some recent wadcutter brass, with 2 lines, isn't really different, thereby supporting data in the picture 

Cast bullets are harder and will quickly tell you which brass to use because the wrong choice will have a bulge.



Good luck

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Post by saread 4/14/2020, 3:28 pm

Loading the best possible HBWC LmxzIjg

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Post by Sa-tevp 4/14/2020, 4:04 pm

saread,

Seeing as I have a bunch of modern used Winchester and Starline brass that is a great picture.
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Post by bruce martindale 4/14/2020, 6:33 pm

Revolver ammo has the heads protruding so less of an issue .

It is easy to test case depth with the shank end of a 23/64 drill bit

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