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Post by 10sandxs on Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:00 pm

I have a Smith and Wesson 19-3 and I'm trying to get leg points. First off, I find shooting a revolver... different.

With the 19, I seemed to shoot well and then toss one out that looked good. I finally had a chance to put it on paper at 50 yards and was disappointed to see its shooting border line 7-8 ring...

Load is an NOE cast 158gr swc over 2.8gt WST. not sure what crimp, but its a stuff roll crimp. A friend has given me some swaged zeros to eliminate bullet, but I've got my suspicions that the gun is a shooter. Any suggestions on where to begin to diagnose the accuracy issue, OR what gun to get if I decide to change it for a (hopefully) better performer? I know some of us are in lock down, so let the discussion begin.

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Post by james r chapman on Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:11 pm

Shoot some 148 hbwc loads thru it (factory) preferably.
That will generally tell you the accuracy potential.
Have you run a Lewis lead remover thru it? Leading can play havoc with loads.
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Post by robert84010 on Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:03 pm

I would inspect the crown. All three of my S&W model 14's improved with a crown cleanup. One of them had a significant defect from the factory.

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Post by DA/SA on Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:05 am

Slide a gauge pin down the barrel to check for thread choke. 

Slug the bore and check the cylinder throat diameters. Cylinder throats should be larger.

Is forcing cone 11° or 18° (or Taylor throated? Cool)

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Post by JIMPGOV on Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:04 am

LOAD IS TOO LIGHT FOR 50YDS. 3.2-3.3GR OF WST IS NEEDED FOR ACCURACY AT 50 YDS. 2.8GR OF WST IS FOR THE SHORT LINE. JP

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Post by Bigtrout on Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:36 am

Try a range rod to check the cylinder alignment to the barrel if the inaccuracy continues after adjusting your recipe.  You may also want to put 10 consecutive rounds through one chamber at a time to see if there are particular chamber variations.
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Post by jglenn21 on Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:17 am

I agree with Jim, you need 3.3.- 3.4gr of WST at the long line. Honestly its tough to have a reload match factory new at LL


Last edited by jglenn21 on Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by bruce martindale on Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:45 am

+1 on a heavier load, that swc needs to move to perform well.

Some will disagree but I couldn't get cast 158s to work at lower speeds.

Test it with factory loads Winchester, Remington, and Federal too

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Post by Steve B on Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:49 pm

LIke most everyone else said, play with the load and look for a sweet spot.  My 14-3 used to love 2.7gr Bullseye with the Zero 158 SWC, but not every gun is the same.  
Also, I've never had a stock S&W where the cylinder throats were cut anywhere near where they should be for the chambered caliber.  You'll definitely hear others complain that you're not supposed to modifythe revolver, but I don't agree with that thought process.  If you're only correcting what the factory did incorrectly I don't see an issue.  The best my 14-3 did was 12 shots inside 2 1/2" at 50 yards out of my RR.

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Post by weber1b on Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 pm

All of those answers are great and get to the heart of the gun and the load. Now lets talk about the shooter. Speaking for myself when I started shooting revolver i was doing very well in slow but stunk in timed and rapid. I figured out I was trying to grip the gun like my favorite, the 1911. I was holding the grip too low in order to replicate the feel and the trigger placement of my finger. When I started gripping the gun like IT wanted to be gripped, meaning hand high on the grip, I was able to shoot much better. 3 legs in so far and heading to DR hopefully in the not too distant future. Not saying this is happening for you but something to ponder.

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Post by Al on Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:40 pm

Bigtrout wrote: You may also want to put 10 consecutive rounds through one chamber at a time to see if there are particular chamber variations.

Just completed this test @ 50 yds. 3 of 6 chambers were so/so. 2 were excellent. 1 looked like S&W forgot to cut rifling in the bore.

3.2 titegroup, Win cases (w/cannelure), Win primer, Lyman 158 SWC mold, Star .358 sizer.

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Post by SonOfAGun on Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:01 pm

Al wrote:
...3 of 6 chambers were so/so. 2 were excellent. 1 looked like S&W forgot to cut rifling in the bore.

I have read that some would shoot the entire SF match out of the best chamber.

By the same token I guess you could totally avoid the worst chamber, even on TF and RF strings.
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Post by Robuc on Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:12 pm

SonOfAGun wrote:
Al wrote:
...3 of 6 chambers were so/so. 2 were excellent. 1 looked like S&W forgot to cut rifling in the bore.

I have read that some would shoot the entire SF match out of the best chamber.

By the same token I guess you could totally avoid the worst chamber, even on TF and RF strings.
How would you mark or number the chambers on the cylinder?   I have a 14-3 also.

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Post by james r chapman on Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:16 pm

Al wrote:
Bigtrout wrote: You may also want to put 10 consecutive rounds through one chamber at a time to see if there are particular chamber variations.

Just completed this test @ 50 yds. 3 of 6 chambers were so/so. 2 were excellent. 1 looked like S&W forgot to cut rifling in the bore.

3.2 titegroup, Win cases (w/cannelure), Win primer, Lyman 158 SWC mold, Star .358 sizer.

Al
Al,
If you’ve got rifling in the cylinder throats(bores) you gotta problems!!
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Post by SonOfAGun on Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:18 pm

Robuc wrote:
How would you mark or number the chambers on the cylinder?   I have a 14-3 also.

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t7788-numbering-revolver-chambers
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Post by PMcfall on Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:55 pm

I used a Mod 19 to get my distinguished and found in my revolver 3.2 gr WST with 158 gr Zero SWC was the ticket.  The twist is all wrong for the 158 gr bullet so you've really got to move the bullet to get it to shoot as several others have suggested.  I also would be trying different brands of bullets and make sure to give the Zero a chance.
Phil
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Post by Robuc on Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:12 pm

SonOfAGun
That link was just what I was looking for.  
Thank you

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Post by 10sandxs on Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:32 pm

Thanks guys. Good stuff for when the range opens up again...

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Post by SMBeyer on Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:30 pm

Just yesterday i benched my 14-3 with 3.2 of WST and Zero 158 SWC and it easily held 10 ring.
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Post by 10sandxs on Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:25 pm

finally got to a range... swaged zeros at 50 yards shot 10 ring.  Home cast 158gr SWC not so much... 20 shots, only one on the repair center.   Luckily,  a friend gave me a case of black hills reman... shoots 10 ring, so I'll have a mold for sale soon...

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Post by Al on Fri May 01, 2020 9:39 am

Rob, Give your cast 158's a Lee liquid alox bath, after sizing them. My cast are now outshooting the Zero's.
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Post by 10sandxs on Fri May 01, 2020 10:01 am

Al, That would mean I'd have to buy alox...


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Post by LenV on Fri May 01, 2020 10:14 am

The Magtec 158gr RN is still the best bullet I've found for the long line. They are pure lead with a small hollow base. Last I looked Graf's still had some at a decent price.

Off sand bag at 50yds. Hard to read but it says 3.5 gr BUllseye.
Distinguish revolver woes 38_spe13
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Post by lablover on Fri May 01, 2020 10:16 am

Just picked up a bunch of mag tech and was looking for a good load...Thanks Len
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Post by Al on Fri May 01, 2020 10:39 am

10sandxs wrote:Al, That would mean I'd have to buy alox...

Rob, I realize it's a sizable investment, but the ransom testing showed it was worth the hundreds of pennies I skeptically ventured on such a foolhardy experiment. 
lol! 

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