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Reline a .22 short barrel

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Reline a .22 short barrel Empty Reline a .22 short barrel

Post by hammerli on 5/16/2020, 2:25 am

Now that the ISSF Rapid Fire match is shot with .22lr there is little use for the .22 short barrels on the OSP and other .22 short pistols. Has anyone tried to convert a dedicated .22 short pistol like a FAS (Domino) or a Hammerli P230 to .22 lr Maybe re line the barrel with a .22 lr liner but the trigger weight could be tricky. The original trigger was set at about 200 grams and getting this upto 1000 grams would be a challenge. Would appreciate any thoughts.

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Post by Asa Yam on 5/16/2020, 4:25 am

Not familiar with either pistol you mentioned, but another item to consider is if the .22LR round(s) you plan to use generate more impulse.  If "yes", a stronger mainspring might be advised. 

A discussion on the "Targettalk" forum says the magazine well on the P230 is too short for converting the pistol to .22LR.  Thread is at http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=23407

Hope this helps.

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Post by Ed Hall on 5/16/2020, 7:06 am

You shouldn't need to reline, just recut the chamber.  The magazine well issue (mentioned above) would be the real troublesome part - not easy to overcome.

What I don't understand is why NRA changed their rules to only .22 long rifle.  Perhaps that could be addressed and changed back.  Why not allow .22 short (or long) for Precision Pistol?

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Post by dronning on 5/16/2020, 8:35 am

It wouldn't just be the mag well but the stroke of the bolt.  Timing is the issue, there has to be enough time as the bolt passes the mag while ejecting the round for the mag to present the next round before the bolt returns to pick up that round.  If the stroke is too short you will have feed issues.

I think the NRA followed the international move away from 22 short ammo.  Plus 22 short ammo is now difficult to find and typically more expensive.
- Dave
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Post by WesG on 5/16/2020, 9:55 am

Also possible the slide is lighter. The High Standard is aluminum.

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Post by Ed Hall on 5/16/2020, 10:51 am

dronning wrote:It wouldn't just be the mag well but the stroke of the bolt.  Timing is the issue, there has to be enough time as the bolt passes the mag while ejecting the round for the mag to present the next round before the bolt returns to pick up that round.  If the stroke is too short you will have feed issues.

I think the NRA followed the international move away from 22 short ammo.  Plus 22 short ammo is now difficult to find and typically more expensive.
- Dave
Good point on possible slide cycling issues.

NRA has separate rules for the International disciplines it administers.  There's no reason to let those dictate domestic disciplines' rules such as Precision Pistol.  Price and availability is a competitor's decision.  It shouldn't drive rules.  As to cost, the "long rifle only" has caused expense in equipment (lost value, new purchase(s) necessary, etc.)

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Post by Jack H on 5/16/2020, 12:55 pm

Ages ago I used an High Standard Olympic slant grip indoors at 50'.  The gun was used but like new condition when I got it.  Wish I still had it.  But accuracy and scores suffered compared to my LR HS 106 gun.  Also heavy use on a HS aluminum slide wears them out quickly as the metal is soft. 
Presently I have an E. Hartford Citation short kit.  An brand new extra aluminum slide.  The 1980 HS Olympic.  2-3 extra mags.   And 2 cases CCI Tgt shorts.
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Reline a .22 short barrel Empty Rifling twist would be important

Post by hammerli on 5/16/2020, 10:55 pm

Ed Hall wrote:You shouldn't need to reline, just recut the chamber.  The magazine well issue (mentioned above) would be the real troublesome part - not easy to overcome.

What I don't understand is why NRA changed their rules to only .22 long rifle.  Perhaps that could be addressed and changed back.  Why not allow .22 short (or long) for Precision Pistol?
Thank you for your thoughts. I read on many forums that merely cutting the chamber would not work since the twist in a .22 short barrel is will not stabilise a .22 lr round. I have an older Hammerli rapid fire pistol which looks exactly like the 208 except it has  a longer barrel and an aluminum slide. I was thinking of even trying to reline this barrel, fit a steel slide (i tried it and the slide fits). The mag well can take the .22 lr magazine but the catch is different so would have to find a way to hold the magazine in.
My concern is accuracy without a proper twist.

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Post by hammerli on 5/16/2020, 11:01 pm

Thank you to all who replied. I really appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.

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Post by Ed Hall on 5/17/2020, 6:58 am

Interesting point about stabilization.  I had not even considered that.  If you choose the reline route, I can suggest checking with Alex Hamilton of Ten-Ring Precsion.  He relined a 208s barrel for me.

As to the magazines, where is the catch located and how is it engaged?  You might be able to use/modify S&W 41 magazines in some fashion.  With modification they work with the 208/215 series of Hammerlis.

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Reline a .22 short barrel Empty Magazine for Hammerli Interntional .22 short

Post by hammerli on 5/17/2020, 7:04 am

Ed Hall wrote:Interesting point about stabilization.  I had not even considered that.  If you choose the reline route, I can suggest checking with Alex Hamilton of   He relined a 208s barrel for me.

As to the magazines, where is the catch located and how is it engaged?  You might be able to use/modify S&W 41 magazines in some fashion.  With modification they work with the 208/215 series of Hammerlis.
What I have is a Hammerli International in .22 short cal. It has a threaded 7 inch barrel with a muzzle break. It appears to have been made for the USA in that it has a safety which is rare on Hammerli's of this vintage. The magazine catch is also of the Classic 1911 style button on the frame.
The catch is on the lip of the magazine on the opposite side.

Interestingly, the slide, rear sight are all interchangeable. It does not have a catch to hold the slide open.
Have you ever come across one of these?

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Post by Ed Hall on 5/17/2020, 12:10 pm

hammerli wrote:What I have is a Hammerli International in .22 short cal. It has a threaded 7 inch barrel with a muzzle break. It appears to have been made for the USA in that it has a safety which is rare on Hammerli's of this vintage. The magazine catch is also of the Classic 1911 style button on the frame.
The catch is on the lip of the magazine on the opposite side.

Interestingly, the slide, rear sight are all interchangeable. It does not have a catch to hold the slide open.
Have you ever come across one of these?
I've heard of but never handled one.  As you mention the safety sounds like an aftermarket addition for US import.  Larry Carter added a safety to his 208(s) models for this reason.  The 1911 magazine has a notch for the magazine catch.  Does your magazine have an extra protrusion, then?

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Reline a .22 short barrel Empty Magazine release and safety

Post by hammerli on 5/26/2020, 4:10 am

Ed Hall wrote:Interesting point about stabilization.  I had not even considered that.  If you choose the reline route, I can suggest checking with Alex Hamilton of Ten-Ring Precsion.  He relined a 208s barrel for me.

As to the magazines, where is the catch located and how is it engaged?  You might be able to use/modify S&W 41 magazines in some fashion.  With modification they work with the 208/215 series of Hammerlis.
Please see the pictures for the mag release and safety and a picture of the cut in the mag wall where a protrusion from the frame engages the magazine. The catch pulls the protrusion back allowing the magazine to be pulled out.

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Post by Ed Hall on 5/26/2020, 7:22 am

hammerli wrote:Please see the pictures for the mag release and safety and a picture of the cut in the mag wall where a protrusion from the frame engages the magazine. The catch pulls the protrusion back allowing the magazine to be pulled out.
I don't see any pictures, but if a protrusion sits in an appropriate hole in the magazine, create an appropriate hole in the new magazine.  The important part of the hole would be the top edge.  That would determine how high the magazine sits in the well.  The rest of the hole just needs to clear the rest of the catch.

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