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Hammerli variations

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Hammerli variations Empty Hammerli variations

Post by 1000yards on 6/7/2020, 8:13 am

Maybe in the wrong forum but if not, a source of good conversation. Finding little info out there on the great Hammerli pistols. What is the difference between 208 and 208 S?  208 International ? Any serial number/date of manufacture info? Educate me please!

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Post by Allen Barnett on 6/7/2020, 3:52 pm

Hang in there I am sure some the Hammeli experts will give you some good info shortly.  I own 2 Trailsides and 1 X-esse so I am interested to hear what they have to say also. LOL

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Post by 1joel1 on 6/8/2020, 11:30 am

This forum has a search function. This has all been covered....many times.

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Post by Larry2520 on 6/8/2020, 6:56 pm

I can't speak to the 212 but I have a 208s. It has a completely adjustable trigger. You can adjust the length of pull and where after the 2.5 pound weight releases hammer trips. It's a wonderful piece. Unfortunately I'm having shoulder problems that could be rotater cuff. With that in mind I'm considering selling it.

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Post by fc60 on 6/9/2020, 1:05 pm

Greetings,

Prior to buying any Haemmerli pistol think about parts and service.

Umarex bought the brand from Walther and do not offer parts nor service for the older Haemmerli pistols.

Mr. Henderson, of Cardinal Shooting, bought a lot of Larry Carter's parts. This may be the only source of spares.

Cheers,

Dave
fc60
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Hammerli variations Empty Cleaning a Hammerli 208 and variants

Post by hammerli on 6/9/2020, 11:46 pm

fc60 wrote:Greetings,

Prior to buying any Haemmerli pistol think about parts and service.

Umarex bought the brand from Walther and do not offer parts nor service for the older Haemmerli pistols.

Mr. Henderson, of Cardinal Shooting, bought a lot of Larry Carter's parts. This may be the only source of spares.

Cheers,

Dave
I think the Hammerli was probably one of the best .22 pistols ever made. Yes, parts are tough to find and can be expensive. That being said, you can get them. If you use the pistol with std. vel ammo you should not have too many problems. Springs and firing pins are available. Hammerli had too many variations to list easily. The 208 was the classic International Hammerli. Some were made for the US with a safety later on. The 208S had an adjustable trigger for length of pull and a squared trigger guard. I also have a 7 inch barrelled Hammerli International in .22 lr with a threaded barrel. I also have a similar one in .22 short with a threaded muzzle break, safety and Colt tyoe mag release. The 212 was specially made for a match called "Hunters Pistol"and this had low profile sights, ambi grips and could, theoretically be carried in a holster. Finally there was the 215, a 208 without the polish and finish of the 208 to make it cheaper. Later they came out with the ill fated P232 a rapid fire pistol which just did not take off.

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Post by H_T_Davis on 6/10/2020, 12:33 pm

From what I have been able to actually document, as opposed to being told, often times at high volume, the designations 208, 207, and 206 were model names used by at Hammerli to differentiate between various barrel lengths and grip configuation.  This was a continuation of the numbering scheme used for the Hammerli-Walther pistols culminating in the 205.

I have never seen a gun marked 208.  That isn't to say that there aren't thousands out there, but no one has ever been able to show me one (or a picture), no matter how mad they get at me for doubting them.  ALL of the 208 Series that I have seen either are simply marked "International" or have a different model name (the 215 or 208S) inscribed.  The 215 and the 208S are late in the run editions that differ mainly by having a safety.

To my knowledge, all of the 206, 207 and 208 series (other than the 215 and 208S) have "International" stamped on the slide.  As best I can tell, no guns were sold in America that had the designation 206, 207 or 208 stamped on them anywhere.

Now, to answer your question.  If you are holding a Hammerli that says "International" on the slide, you are holding an "International," though it could be a 206, 207 or 208 Series.  If it has a 7+ inch barrel with a compensator, it is a 206 or 207 series;  if the barrel length is 5.75 inches, it is a 208 series.

Now, as far as 208 Series Internationals go, it stated life with a single-stage trigger with a smooth, slightly bowed trigger blade.  The trigger blade was then changed to the wide, flat, ribbed trigger blade that was used through the end of the 208 Series Internationals.  Later in the series, an adjustable plunger was installed in the frame, behind the trigger, to effect the two-stage trigger pull.  Slight modifications to the rear of the trigger blade were made to engage the plunger.

In the 1990s, a number of changes to the importation regulations for firearms took effect, and Hammerli decided it could best meet them by installing a safety on their 208 series pistols.  Two new pistols in the series were rolled out, each with a new designation (though they were both still in the 208 series) actually stamped on the gun.  The 208S has a "knob" safety on the rear, just below the rear sight, and the 215 has a "switch" safety in the same place.  The 208S also differs from the Internationals in having an enlarged, squared trigger guard, a smooth, bowed trigger face, and the trigger itself is mounted on a slide that allows forward/backward adjustment in the trigger guard.  I believe that the 215 trigger is the same as the latter one-stage trigger on the "International."  I know that I have seen two-stage 215s, but they may have been Larry Carter modifications.  Larry also would install a 208S-type trigger in your International if he was in a good mood.  The only real differences between the 215 and the International are the aforementioned safety and a ramp up to the front sight, presumably resulting in a slightly different balance.  The 215 was though of as the less fancy (cheaper) version of the 208S.

The record was set with a 208 Series International, not a 208S.

Once they quit making the 208 Series, Hammerli created a cheaper version with a number of plastic/composite parts.  It was imported into the US by Sig as the Trailside.  These all have one-stage triggers, though Larry Carter sold a kit with with a 208-type plunger to upgrade the trigger to two-stage.  The only change that I am aware of over the life of the Trailside is the change from a coil spring to a leaf spring on the transfer bar.  After Walther bought Hammerli, they ended the deal with Sig and started importing the pistol themselves as the Xesse.  The Xesse is still available in multiple configuations including those with two-stage triggers, (plastic) target grips, at least two different barrel lengths, and various sight configurations.

One of the biggest knocks on the Trailside/Xesse guns has to do with the use of plastic.  This makes the gun MUCH cheaper to manufacture, resulting in top quality accuracy for around $1000.  Assuming that you buy one with a two-stage match trigger and match sights, you'll have about $50 worth of plastic parts (that ARE GOING TO BREAK) to replace to bring it up to a match-worthy pistol.  The only other thing that folks complain about are the plastic magazines.  Yes, the lips will wear out (about 20k rounds, I'd guess) and you'll have to replace them.  On the other hand, I can buy 5 plastic magazines for the cost of one metal 208 mag.  I know how to make metal magazines for my Trailside - I'm still working on perfecting plastic mags for my Internationals.  As you probably know, Model 41 mags can be modified to work in both Internationals and Trailsides/Xesses simultaneously, cutting down on the number of magazines to misplace.

I welcome any comments or corrections, as this info isn't as easy to find as it should be.  Just PM them to me so as not to highjack this thread.


Last edited by H_T_Davis on 6/10/2020, 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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