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Post by spaatz1644 on 6/12/2020, 1:19 pm

Hey guys, I'm brand new here. I've been a service rifle shooter for a few years, and am getting the bug to try service pistol too.

I'm a history nerd, and I'm curious when the current B6 and B8 targets were adopted. High power rifle targets have had a couple revisions in the last century. How about the pistol targets?

Thanks.

Jamie

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Post by spaatz1644 on 6/12/2020, 2:01 pm

Hap Rocketto may have already answered my question in his excellent histories of the National Trophies. 

Looks like the 50 yard target goes back to 1921, and the 25 yard target was adopted in 1929.

Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken. 

One thing I love about traditional shooting is the history. I love that National Trophies are still being won with the same pistols (though highly evolved) and the same targets as they were a century ago.

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Post by CR10X on 6/12/2020, 3:43 pm

I don't know if the dimensions changed but B6 and B8 were redrawn about 1985.  I think the B16 may have been done in 1993.  I think it was a revision of the width of the black / white ring between each of the scoring areas (for the B6 and B8).  I had a reference somewhere from the old Bulletin Board days.  Maybe Ed Hall can remember?


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Post by Ed Hall on 6/13/2020, 7:21 am

The B6 and B8 targets were redrawn in 1985 and say so under the NRA seal in the lower right on some, if not all current targets.  I don't have any B16 targets handy ATM, but they were changed while I was out of country (1994-1996).  With that change, the X-ring was added.

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Post by -TT- on 6/13/2020, 1:00 pm

The National Target Co B16 that I have here says "(1993)" in the lower right. It has an X-ring circle, but no "X", just an extra circle within the 10-ring.

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Post by Ed Hall on 6/14/2020, 8:18 am

-TT- wrote:The National Target Co B16 that I have here says "(1993)" in the lower right. It has an X-ring circle, but no "X", just an extra circle within the 10-ring.
That's the one! I probably just hadn't seen any of the new ones prior to leaving the U.S. in late 1993, as all the ranges were probably using up old stock.

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Post by CR10X on 6/14/2020, 7:00 pm

That's it. (B16) It has an X ring that was added but no "X" in the circle.

Looking back at the dimensions of the Army "L" target and the current B6, B8, etc., it looks like the ring dimensions are pretty similar (but not exactly the same).  Still kinda interesting that the Pistol targets don't seem to have as much history as rifle.

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2015/7/5/a-short-history-of-american-target-development-and-evolution/

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Post by john bickar on 6/15/2020, 2:50 pm

I recall (but am not certain) that the change of the 25-yard slow fire target (B16?) in the '90s not only added the X-ring, but made the rings smaller. The old one was a dang bucket. I could've sworn that it was after 1994 or 1995 when it changed, because I broke 2600 for the first time in early 1994 at 25 yards in Oak Harbor and I thought it was on the old "bucket" targets.
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Post by Ed Hall on 6/16/2020, 6:58 pm

john bickar wrote:I recall (but am not certain) that the change of the 25-yard slow fire target (B16?) in the '90s not only added the X-ring, but made the rings smaller. The old one was a dang bucket. I could've sworn that it was after 1994 or 1995 when it changed, because I broke 2600 for the first time in early 1994 at 25 yards in Oak Harbor and I thought it was on the old "bucket" targets.
Even though the new targets were redrawn in 1993, most clubs had a fair supply of the older ones they wanted to use up.

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Post by john bickar on 6/16/2020, 9:10 pm

Ed Hall wrote:
john bickar wrote:I recall (but am not certain) that the change of the 25-yard slow fire target (B16?) in the '90s not only added the X-ring, but made the rings smaller. The old one was a dang bucket. I could've sworn that it was after 1994 or 1995 when it changed, because I broke 2600 for the first time in early 1994 at 25 yards in Oak Harbor and I thought it was on the old "bucket" targets.
Even though the new targets were redrawn in 1993, most clubs had a fair supply of the older ones they wanted to use up.
I'll not cast aspersions on Oak Harbor. It's more likely that my memory is faulty than that they were using outdated targets.
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Post by Ed Hall on 6/16/2020, 9:44 pm

john bickar wrote:
Ed Hall wrote:
john bickar wrote:I recall (but am not certain) that the change of the 25-yard slow fire target (B16?) in the '90s not only added the X-ring, but made the rings smaller. The old one was a dang bucket. I could've sworn that it was after 1994 or 1995 when it changed, because I broke 2600 for the first time in early 1994 at 25 yards in Oak Harbor and I thought it was on the old "bucket" targets.
Even though the new targets were redrawn in 1993, most clubs had a fair supply of the older ones they wanted to use up.
I'll not cast aspersions on Oak Harbor. It's more likely that my memory is faulty than that they were using outdated targets.
No "aspersions."  There was probably a grace period as the new targets were brought in.  I never saw them until I returned from overseas in '96.  I shot well through '93.

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Post by CR10X on 6/17/2020, 5:27 am

Talk about "grace period".  My club still has a thousand or so 25 and 50 yard paper repair centers with the NBPRP (National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice) legend at the bottom.  Their so old even the mice won't eat them. (Probably 1960's production.) There's another National Guard range in the state that still seems to have some of those as well.


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Post by james r chapman on 6/17/2020, 6:45 am

Post a picture or two please
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Post by Colt711 on 6/17/2020, 11:18 pm

We, Oak Harbor, were told the NRA would accept scores fired on the old SF 25 yd targets until our inventory was used. There may have been conversation as to how long that might last.

The NRA put out the information that the target was chg'd due to math errors in original target design. i.e. reduction from 50 yds to 25. I think it was probably published in the Shooting Sports (?) pub that was to be furnished to classified shooters when match dates were remove from the Rifleman and would always be free???

Speaking of changes, do any of you veterans recall when NRA announced the 2700 would be eliminated? To  be replace  w/ a 2400 to be made up of  900 .22, 600 .38  (limited to revolver maybe?), and 300 .45. That doesn't add up to 2400 so there must have been something else in the CF or possibly it was to be a 2100? The reason given was to make us more competitive in International.

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Post by MarkF45 on 6/18/2020, 9:25 pm

Speaking of changes, do any of you veterans recall when NRA announced the 2700 would be eliminated? To  be replace  w/ a 2400 to be made up of  900 .22, 600 .38  (limited to revolver maybe?), and 300 .45. That doesn't add up to 2400 so there must have been something else in the CF or possibly it was to be a 2100? The reason given was to make us more competitive in International.

I remember that from about 40 years ago or so. I don't remember the individual stages, but it did add up to 2400.

I never saw a single match listed anywhere for that course of fire. Yes, it was to make us more competitive in ISU/ISSF. In hindsight, it would have been a waste of time.


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Post by CR10X on 6/20/2020, 6:02 am

Here you go.  Standard American Target N.B.P.R.P  50 yd and 25 yd centers.
Target history question Thumbnail?appid=aolwebmail&ymreqid=54dbc2b1-dcf6-7d2c-2f3c-cd000f011c00&size=275w&webstdver=79


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Post by Slamfire on 6/23/2020, 12:34 pm

This is hanging in the Louisville KY R&P Clubhouse.

Target history question JLUkGCs

And this is the target used in 1947

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