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Excessive leading in revolver- part 2

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Post by joeangi on Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:01 pm

I figured I would start a new thread instead of resurrecting the old one.

I have been having problems with leading in the cylinders of my Bill Davis PPC revolver. I thought that the Precision Delta bullets were the problem... so I bought a bunch of Zero 148 HBWC.

I tried loading with unsized brass and 3.1 gr. of w231 powder. I also made some with sized brass... also at 3.1 gr, with the bullet sat flush with the top of the brass. I also have a small roll crimp.

The other day I shot 50 rounds. After 30 I looked into the chambers, and did not like what I saw. I knocked some of the excessive lead out of the chambers, and fired another 20. I did not look at the range, but I took pictures just now

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Post by joeangi on Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:05 pm

Excessive leading in revolver- part 2  7e6fc410

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Post by joeangi on Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:06 pm

Excessive leading in revolver- part 2  02616110

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Post by james r chapman on Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:06 pm

Truly lead? Or grease
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Post by joeangi on Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:31 pm

Flakes of lead

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Post by DA/SA on Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:41 pm

What are the cylinder throat diameters and barrel diameter?

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Post by james r chapman on Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:07 am

And
Where in the world did you find Remmie 148 HBWC’s!!!
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Post by joeangi on Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:51 am

I do not know, I do not have pin gauges to measure. 

They were Zero hbwc....no one can find Remmy’s

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Post by DA/SA on Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:07 am

joeangi wrote:I do not know, I do not have pin gauges to measure. 
That would be the best place to start in order to find a remedy.

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Post by Virgil Kane on Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:13 am

It has been my experience that when there is leading like you are getting it's from the chambers and cylinder throats having lead deposits in them and they are not clean.  What looks clean may contain minute lead buildup and then the lead starts building up in those spots.  The spots that are truly clean and have an oil coating doesn't allow the lead to build up but the dirty spots do have lead buildup and that's why you see the "flaking" of lead, because it sticks to the old lead and gets smeared where there is no lead and the oil doesn't allow it to stick and you get a "flake" of lead. Try cleaning your cylinders and cylinder throats so they are spotless.  It may take some time and you might have to use something with a mild abrasive in it (that doesn't scratch the cylinder walls) and scrub, scrub, scrub. When you think it's clean scrub some more.
I had the same problem with a M-14 that I bought used.  Big flakes of lead exactly like your getting no matter what bullet I used including the Remington HBWC.  The more I cleaned it the less it flaked lead.  I have no idea how the gun was cleaned before I bought it or how many rounds were shot through it but I can say this.  When I thought I had all the leading out of the cylinder and throats I was wrong and there was still a minute buildup that caused the leading.
I think too many people hear stories about how guns were ruined by cleaning them to much or to aggressively and because of that they don't get them truly clean.  
Just my random thoughts.

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Post by joeangi on Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:53 am

Virgil, thank you for the reply.

I have done my best to clean the chambers...I bought "Chore Boy" and have used that. I bought a Lewis Lead remover and tried that. I bought a Flex Hone (very fine), but have been hesitant to use it. I bought JB Bore cleaner, but have not tried it yet. I guess I can give her a good scrubbing this evening and see what happens. Like you stated, I don't want to hurt anything by being too aggressive.

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Post by David R on Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:55 am

I saw those flakes in my brass when I was shooting the Zero bullets.   Barrel leading was minimal.

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Post by Virgil Kane on Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:03 am

joeangi wrote:Virgil, thank you for the reply.

I have done my best to clean the chambers...I bought "Chore Boy" and have used that. I bought a Lewis Lead remover and tried that. I bought a Flex Hone (very fine), but have been hesitant to use it. I bought JB Bore cleaner, but have not tried it yet. I guess I can give her a good scrubbing this evening and see what happens. Like you stated, I don't want to hurt anything by being too aggressive.

I use JB bore cleaner and scrub like crazy with a patch and jag.  Hasn't hurt my revolvers one bit.

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Post by james r chapman on Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:19 am

Choir boy wrapped around a brush attached to a drill motor.
Chore!
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Post by Virgil Kane on Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:57 pm

If you scrub like crazy and still get leading but it's less than before that means your on the right track.  If that happens then it's back to scrubbing some more until you get zero leading.  Zero is a figurative term because if you shoot lead you will always get some streaks (not flakes) of lead,BUT, if your cylinder is truly clean then they should just brush out with a brass brush.

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Post by Al on Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:26 pm

james r chapman wrote:Choir boy wrapped around a brush attached to a drill motor.
Chore!
Good catch James !!!
I'm thinking the only bore the first option would fit into would be a 16" Naval gun.

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Post by Wobbley on Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:49 pm

Before you start scrubbing soak the cylinder and forcing cone in Kroil.  It will creep under leading and copper fouling.  Use rubber stoppers (wood might do) and just fill each chamber.  After that soaks in for a day, flip the revolver and soak the barrel including the forcing cone.  Then your scrubbing will be much easier.
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Post by joeangi on Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:05 pm

Anyone had any experience with Bore Tech polishing hone? I have the 800 grit (finest) model. I was thinking of polishing the chambers after cleaning them really well. I was thinking that it may help increase the smoothness of the chamber, and reduce the leading/ accumulation of crud. Thoughts?

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Post by joeangi on Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:09 pm

Interesting idea with the Kroil....I do not have any currently. I have Hoppes, Butches bore shine and Ed's Red....any of these work similarly?

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Post by Wobbley on Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:24 pm

Ed’s red, but I think you can find Kroil at some Auto Stores.
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Post by Virgil Kane on Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:32 pm

joeangi wrote:Anyone had any experience with Bore Tech polishing hone? I have the 800 grit (finest) model. I was thinking of polishing the chambers after cleaning them really well. I was thinking that it may help increase the smoothness of the chamber, and reduce the leading/ accumulation of crud. Thoughts?

Polishing the chambers will not help the leading in the cylinder throats.  If the hone will fit in the cylinder throats then you could give that a try if your careful not to taper or egg them out. BUT the cylinder throats have to be spotless to do that. 
The only downside of a polishing hone is if there is any trace of lead in the chambers or the throats the hone will load up with that lead and make the hone useless.
Some have suggested Kroil which works well but I'm betting that your cylinder throats are a bit on the rough side even though they might look smooth to the naked eye.  If that's the case you can soak till the cows come home and it's not going to help your leading problem.  In a rough throat the lead is mechanically locked in place, that's why when you clean the cylinder and throats it looks clean but that's because you have smoothed out the lead that's mechanically held in place to the height of the cylinder throat walls. You shoot the gun and get flakes of lead again because the lead from the bullet is adhering to the left behind lead in the cylinder wall.  The only way to get that lead out is to psychically remove it and that's where the elbow grease comes into play.
Just for chits and giggles next time you clean your revolver take a jag with a dry patch and scrub the cylinder throats AFTER your done cleaning, do this a coupe of times changing the patch to a clean one after the six chambers.  Now take a very strong flashlight and with the cylinder open look at the front of the cylinder looking down the throats at an angle and I would bet that you will see smears of lead along the cylinder throat walls.  Check all six throats and check all around the circumference and down to the chamber leade for anything discolored from the rest of the cylinder throat.  If you see anything except a universally colored cylinder throat, anything that looks a little lighter color in spots that's lead stuck to the throat, it's not going to be silver in color but will look different in color than the rest of the cylinder throat.  Some cylinders may have a lot of streaking while others very little streaking.  If that's the case then you have to use elbow grease to get that remaining lead out then jag and patch and check again.   

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Post by joeangi on Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 pm

Ok, I have been cleaning the cylinder for almost 2 hours. I have thrown everything I have at it. I started with Chore (not a choir) boy wrapped around a brass brush chucked into a drill. I dipped it in Ed’s red (later in Butch’s) and gave a good scrubbing. I then tried some of the JB bore cleaner. I also used the Lewis lead remover. Many patches later and there is still lead in there! I think it is really embedded. I tried scrubbing with the brass brush, scrubbing with a nylon brush and running many patches through. There has to be a better way! I am ready to go shopping for liquid mercury (kidding). I will continue scrubbing tomorrow, and report back. It’s getting better, but I just want to scrape it out

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Post by AHI on Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:29 pm

Let it soak in eds red overnight. Then brush and clean. Repeat. let the chemicals work.

If it was stainless steel I would recommend a mix  of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide.
This can remove the bluing but will dissolve the lead. Or at least lift it .

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Post by joeangi on Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:20 am

I will try soaking...

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Post by bruce martindale on Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:24 am

+1 on kroil, you can firebrush it too, fast and easy

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