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Good training, or not?

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DA/SA
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jwax
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Post by jwax Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:24 am

I have the good fortune to shoot at a pistol range at whatever distance I desire.

I set my distance to 10-15 yds from a B8 (25 yd target). I fire 50 shots, with the goal of putting them all in the 10 ring. If any shot misses, I start all over again, firing 50 shots until they are all in the 10 ring.

Once accomplished, I increase my distance by 5 yds. Repeat firing 50 shots until they are all in the 10 ring. Again, if any shot misses the 10 ring, start over.

Repeat until all shots are 10's at 25 yds. Then, of course, repeat the entire process for the 50 yd range.

Question is, what will this accomplish, if anything? Internal comfort/confidence with cleaning targets consistently? Success breeds success?

So far, I've learned that the good shots are doable, but all good shots are the holy grail! Bad shots hurt way more than good shots feel good!

Has anybody tried this approach, and what did you learn?

A Master shooter once told me, "Distance doesn't matter"! Do you agree?
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Post by CrankyThunder Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:49 am

Hey Jwax:

If you are just shooting to put lead downrange, you are wasting ammo.  Especially if you are not enjoying it that much.  

You need to work on the fundamentals.  

Breath, Stance, Grip, Sight Alignment, and trigger control.  

You gotta practice each one separately, Breath Stance and grip such that when you present yourself to the target and raise your gun, the dot or sights are aligned in the bull each and every time.  That is your goal with breath stance and grip.  

Sight alignment, get comfortable with the wobble.  

And then the biggie, trigger control.  Do a hundred or so dry fires every day.  Do it on the couch watching jeopardy but do it.  Get to know your trigger as intimately as you can.  

Sooner or later you will be practicing or at a match and the gun will go off when the sights align as if by magic.  That is what you want.  it takes practice of the fundamentals to get to that point.  Actually one of two things will happen, either the gun will go off when the sights are zeroed on the bull, or the gun will jump to the bull and fire by itself.  it is your subconscious taking over. Gotta do the fundamentals. 

Regards, 
Cranky
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Post by DA/SA Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:50 am

Well, here's an example...

A member here regularly shoots at 45', and shoots very well, as that is the max distance at his local range.

I was just looking at the scores from Bristol and saw that he posted very respectable scores there as well shooting at 50 and 25 yards.

It seems to be working for him as far as distance is concerned!
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Post by james r chapman Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:49 am

But is he using regulation targets, not just a large target at close range?
It’s probably safe to say your group size will multiply by the distance comparison
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Post by DA/SA Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:54 am

Using 50' slow and sustained fire targets at 45', so it's close to being regulation.
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Post by Oleg G Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:12 pm

Jwax, I think that you will do better by working on the goals, as set in the USMC Workbook:

1. All shots into a 5.5" group on blank target at 25 yards - 20 consecutive shots
2. All shots into black on a B-8 target at 25 yards (don't score!) - 20 consecutive shots. Shoot individual targets with as many shots as it takes to put 10 into the black.
2a. (My modification) Set a goal of progressively higher number of shots in the 10-ring (5-6-7-8-9-10) and shoot as many shot as it takes per target to get there.
3. All shots into the 10-ring on a B-8 target at 25 yards - 20 consecutive shots. Shoot individual targets with as many shots as it takes to put 10 into the 10-ring.
4. Rinse and repeat for 50 yards by following the goals in the USMC Workbook.

These goals are not the end to themselves but good yardsticks to measure the improvements in your training.
Your chief goal must always be: "take one shot at a time and follow your shot process every time!"
In addition to helping you measure your technical progress, this method also works well to improve your confidence and mental toughness, which is a huge part of our game.
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Post by jwax Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:36 pm

Exactly Oleg- The path to getting your mind to see and feel shots in the ten ring builds confidence and is the whole point, hence the reduced distance to start.
Shooting full distance and missing the ten often is not conducive to building confidence.
The know how, and to expect all the shots as tens until it is routine is goal.
Thanks all!
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Post by Allen Barnett Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:45 pm

Yes to what Oleg says!!!!!!!!  I am currently stuck on shooting the 20 consecutive 10's or better.  I buzzed right through the blank target grouping and then the 20 consecutive shots in the black but I am hung up on the 20 consecutive ten's or better.  I have shot several targets with 18 or 19 ten's or better and then there is the shot that doesn't play well with others!  Stay with it, the USMC program does work.  I have shot a couple of practice matches and have seen a big improvement in my scores from last year.  Develop your shot process and USE IT.

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Post by Allen Barnett Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:48 pm

Also if you don't have the USMC training program it is in the sticky section above.

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Post by radjag Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:42 pm

Yes, I'm the one who regularly practises on 50' NRA targets at 45' cause that is the limit at my local range.

Thank you DA/SA for the compliments.

I've had a lot of spare time during the past few COVID months and have tried to shoot at least a full 2,700 at each range visit - weather and occasional other range users permitting - usually about 4 times per week.

I have tried to focus on specific issues for a concentrated period, usually for at least a week. Breathing and cadence was a big issue. Chicken finger with the 45 another. Trying to drill myself into getting all the small issues organised into a regimented routine. So I try not to just "throw lead down the range". I inject some variety by shooting different guns - all EIC for example.

I do not enjoy dry firing, but I'm fortunate to have been able to practise real shooting regularly several days a week for 4+ hours per session

My 22 scores have improved significantly both with red dot and open sights. I'm struggling with CF and 45. Spent almost the entire day today at Cardinal unravelling the mysteries that engulfed me at Bristol!

I respect those who find dry firing or the USMC Workbook drills important to their development. We all have to find our own way to unlock the secrets. Reading and understanding the treasure trove of advice on this forum is a massive benefit.

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Post by jwax Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:53 am

Thanks Roy! "Unlocking the secrets" is key!
Don't forget that training is supposed to be hard work, but at a match, just enjoy using what you know and let it flow.
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Post by radjag Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:37 pm

I have thought more about this thread during my very boring "long drive", got as far as Oregon today, still another full days driving tomorrow to get to the coast!.

There is no doubt that shooting the correct targets at 50/25 yards is obviously the best practise.

Second best is to use the correct NRA "scaled" targets at whatever distance is available. Use a timer if turning targets are not available.

The big issue for me is eyesight. I suffer from "floaters" and a minor astigmatism in my master (right) eye. I have now got two pairs of "Knobloch" style glasses each with an iris and blinders, one set up for red dot, the other set for iron sights. That makes a massive difference for me. BUT, the sight/target image quality is almost always better at 50 feet than at 50 yards and the floaters have a bigger impact as the distance increases.

Another discovery I found at Canton (very hot, hard sunlight on the firing line) was that the stark clarity of the gun/etc detracted from the clarity of the red dot against the target (I need to figure that one out), but that stark sunlight made the iron sights extremely clear and easier to align.

I have struggled in the past shooting on indoor ranges (usually at 50 feet) due to my eyesight being less sharp in low light levels. I did not expect that bright sunlight would create other advantages/disadvantages.

No easy answers in this game!

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Post by jwax Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:53 am

"There is no doubt that shooting the correct targets at 50/25 yards is obviously the best practise."
Still not convinced that is true Roy!
The confidence of shooting consistent X's and 10's is a powerful mental ally. You get to expect it at any range.

As for vision, have you used polaroid filters on your reddots? I have rotatable ones on my Bushnell reddots so you can rotate it to darken the bright white of targets and thereby increase the contrast of your red dot.

And yes, brightly illuminated iron sights helps tremendously! You want that front sight especially to be bright, keeping your attention there.
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Post by radjag Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:39 am

John, yes, sorry, I'm confusing training and practise again.

Repeatedly shooting x's on a scaled target at shorter range is better training. I agree.

Pre-match practise at the full distance is good for sorting out glasses, sights, ammo, etc.

I have a rotatable polariser, never tried it. Good suggestion. Thanks.

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