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Left hand/ right eye. losing dot in rapid fire

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8at4
Ed Hall
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Left hand/ right eye. losing dot in rapid fire Empty Left hand/ right eye. losing dot in rapid fire

Post by james r chapman 7/3/2020, 3:35 pm

Ok, I admit it. I've read all of Mikeys threads and now I'm confused.

I shoot left hand/right eye. left eye closed or covered due to floaters.

1911 slabs.

what are the recommendations?
When I do the prescribed zins etc way the dot wants to be on the right. usually on 4th-5th shot I've lost it and have to toss around to find it.

HELP!

Jim..
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Post by zanemoseley 7/3/2020, 6:09 pm

I wonder if custom offset grips might help you since you're not using your dominant eye. Maybe shoot Dick Horton or Andrew an email to see if they've done it before.


Last edited by zanemoseley on 7/3/2020, 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Jon Eulette 7/3/2020, 6:39 pm

When I shot left hand right eye I adjusted my head to compensate and arm slightly. No issues. Felt comfortable other than the fact I'm right handed. 1911 with slabs.
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Post by james r chapman 7/3/2020, 8:00 pm

Jon,
Did you find going less angle helped?
I’ve been doing about 40* from straight on.
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Post by Ed Hall 7/3/2020, 8:45 pm

Make sure you're keeping your head upright and not drifting a little forward or right.

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Post by Jon Eulette 7/3/2020, 9:02 pm

I used same stance as right handed, just mirrored. Ed is spot on about the head position. Juat as important right handed! Easily overlooked.
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Post by 8at4 7/3/2020, 10:16 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:When I shot left hand right eye I adjusted my head to compensate and arm slightly. No issues. Felt comfortable other than the fact I'm right handed. 1911 with slabs.
Jon
 Did you shoot hold the pistol straight up and down or with a cant. I shoot left hand right eye. It feels more comfortable to use a cant, but I find myself pushing shots out at 2:00.

Thanks,
Scott

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Post by Jon Eulette 7/3/2020, 10:22 pm

No I held vertical. 2650 right hand and 2600 left handed.
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Post by mikemyers 7/6/2020, 8:53 pm

Sorry Jim, reading Mikey's posts might be contagious.     :-)

Just wondering though, have you ever considered what Keith Sanderson and Dave Salyer have done, learning to shoot with the other hand?  Both Keith and Dave got to where they could shoot with their "other" hand as well as with their regular hand (when they both had reasons why they needed to stop shooting with their regular hand for a while).

Meanwhile, since I also have worse floaters in my right eye than my left, I tried to do what you're doing, dry-firing with my gun angled slightly in my hand, and looking  at the sight with my left eye.  For taking one shot dry-firing, everything feels fine.  

If I had to guess, one explanation why the dot moves off to the side and beyond the sight might be that since the gun is angled slightly differently, your trigger  finger might now be putting a little sideways pressure on the trigger because of the change in angle (trigger finger, and gun).  After several shots, what you describe might be logical, unless your trigger finger is corrected for the slightly different new angle of the gun.  (To test this, move your right arm way off to your left, aim your gun at the target, and press on the trigger.  If the pressure isn't being applied straight down the gun, this effect will be obvious.)
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Post by BE Mike 7/7/2020, 8:37 am

Shooting a dot cross dominant is a challenge, especially during sustained fire. I always considered getting my "natural point of aim" as part of my shooting plan. You might consider going to a larger scope, if possible or even going back to iron sights, if it is possible for you to get your eyes corrected with glasses.
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Post by mikemyers 7/7/2020, 8:44 am

BE Mike wrote:....... if it is possible for you to get your eyes corrected with glasses.
Floaters are little bits and pieces of "stuff" that float around inside your eye.  If you have virtual separation, that's one common cause - and where mine came from.  Very annoying, and glasses don't help at all.  

One treatment which is strongly NOT recommended, is the fluid in your eye can be replaced by clear fluid, preferably the same density as the fluid in your eye, which gets rid of the "debris".  The risks from doing this are much worse than the annoyance of floaters.

For me, I find if I "flick" my eyes up/down or to the side and back, the floaters move away, but they seem to always return to the. original spot.  Over time, they may move elsewhere, maybe better, maybe worse.

You don't actually "see" the floaters - what you see is the shadow they cast on your eye's retina.

Left hand/ right eye. losing dot in rapid fire Floaters-NEC
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Post by dronning 7/7/2020, 9:02 am

There have been more than a few High Masters like Jon that had to switch hands for one reason or another and shot just as well. The most famous was probably Olympic Champion Karoly Takacs.

Karoly Takacs Story

- Dave
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Post by james r chapman 7/7/2020, 1:47 pm

It’s not really a floater, it’s a round translucent small disc about an 1/8 left and down from the dot.
Many have looked, non have found it.
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Post by mikemyers 7/7/2020, 2:57 pm

Jim, if I understand you correctly, you see "something" a little lower than the dot, and a little to the left.

  • Can you still see it if you don't have the gun in front of you?
  • While you're looking at it, if you "flick" your eye up/down/sidwways, does it sort of "float" within the eye?
  • Is it "rigidly" attached to your eye, so any movement you make with your eye, it moves instantly as if it is "locked in place"?
  • When you say "many have looked, none have found it", is this ordinary people or eye specialists?
  • If it is a floater, you can't see it either - you see the shadow it makes on your retina.
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Post by mikemyers 8/18/2020, 7:24 pm

james r chapman wrote:Ok, I admit it. I've read all of Mikeys threads and now I'm confused.
I shoot left hand/right eye. left eye closed or covered due to floaters.
1911 slabs.
what are the recommendations?
When I do the prescribed zins etc way the dot wants to be on the right. usually on 4th-5th shot I've lost it and have to toss around to find it.
HELP!
Jim..
I'm in a worse position, having actually written those threads and spent hours and hours trying to come to a conclusion.

Background - I've got floaters in my right eye, and I'm right-handed, so while I can usually function with a red dot sight, using steel sights are something else again.  If I can't see the sight clearly, how can I align them?  I decided I can't.  So yesterday I used my S&W Model 17 revolver, and was amazed that if I used my left eye, I could see the front sight perfectly clearly, along with the height and gaps to the side.  It took one "wild" shot, and from then on I was shooting with my left hand no worse, and maybe better than when I used my right eye.  

The bad thing about it, was I couldn't "black out" what my right eye was seeing, and I felt like I was straining a lot.

Today I tried an occluder over my right eye, kept both eyes open, and it was a world of difference!  Other than my body being at a "strange" orientation to have the gun in front of my left eye, all was well.

I won't get to try this until tomorrow, but the flip-up occluder made all the difference. Neither eye felt "strained", and I had a clear, crisp view of the front sight.  I put a mark on it a few hours ago, as that's supposed to help me focus on the front sight to the exclusion of everything else.


To Jim - if you have one, try using the occluder over the other eye, rather than keeping it closed.  Everything will be and feel natural, and you'll only see the one (correct) image of the sights (red dot or steel).  Your body and brain won't be struggling to get a "normal" view, as the view will be perfectly normal and natural.  Your body may feel out of shape, but since you're already shooting that way, your body should be fine.  When you cover your left eye, make sure to NOT block the light.  Let everything be perfectly "normal", other than that your left eye won't see any detail.

I didn't try any of this with a dot sight (yet), but I'll do that next time.  I expect I'll shoot better because I'll be able to even see the dot better, but I don't know how well the dot will do at staying centered.  Maybe what I just wrote will be useless to you.   :-(
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Post by james r chapman 8/18/2020, 7:37 pm

always using an occluder.
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Post by mikemyers 8/18/2020, 7:39 pm

Black, or translucent?  From what you originally wrote, I assumed no light was coming through.

Added later - the most logical explanation I can come up with - and I've tested it with an Aimpoint H-2 - is that your head is moving to a different position in relation to the sight.  Move head to the side > dot vanishes.  Why your head moves (if this is correct) is something that maybe another person can tell from standing in front of you as you dry fire (don't like this idea) or if you aim at yourself in a mirror.  If your head is shifting position relative to the gun, it should be obvious.

You could also dry-fire while looking into a video camera, and compare the frames to see what moved, your head, or the gun/sight.
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Post by james r chapman 8/18/2020, 8:34 pm

I think it's more the wrist angle breaks down.
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Post by mikemyers 8/18/2020, 9:03 pm

I tried what you're doing, moving my gun to the opposite eye.  I had to do one of two things, angle my wrist to get the gun aligned with my other eye, OR rotate the gun in my hand.  Or both. The tighter I gripped the gun, the better.

Too bad devices like the CVS Wrist Support Strap aren't allowed.  I bought two to give away to friends, one for me to try, and there's one left over - if you want it, send me a message and I'll mail it to you.
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Post by WesG 8/19/2020, 12:29 am

A piece of scotch tape on the lens will work too.

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