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Post by Wgisaac on 7/28/2020, 2:17 pm

Have been shooting BE for 10+ years, and as I age my hold is becoming very shaky. Any suggestions

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Post by Al on 7/28/2020, 2:51 pm

Traveling the same road. Best case scenario is to keep the trigger moving & trust that a few of the shots make it into the 10 ring. I've even gone as far as trying to shoot left handed (i'm horribly RH dominate). The tremors are less, the shot process is the same, but the fine motor skills aren't there. Need a lot of repetition.

Frustrating to see what was once a hard 9 ring hold become a tremor I can't keep on the repair center. If it wasn't for the enjoyment of seeing & visiting with some of the best folks in existence, I'd have a hard time keeping shooting.

It still feels good calling the shot, even if it broke at the far end of my wobble.

Al

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Post by mikemyers on 7/28/2020, 6:35 pm

If you're shooting for enjoyment, not competitive matches, you could try a wrist strengthener strap, available from CVS and many other sources.

Depending on the tremor, doctors also have methods to control or at least reduce the tremor.

https://www.cvs.com/shop/cvs-wrist-support-strap-adjustable-prodid-1660023
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Post by SteveT on 7/29/2020, 10:02 am

Arm strengthening exercises and holding exercises should be limited to 3lbs or less. Using 5 lbs or more engages the large muscles. We want to strengthen the small control muscles. Do more reps as you improve rather than increasing the weight.

Raise a light dumbbell (or gun, or jug of water) up to your firing position hold for 30 seconds, then lower for 30 seconds. I alternate arms every 30 seconds to stay balanced. Sometimes I draw small, slow, controlled figure-eights with the weight to work all the muscles.

I also dry fire with a dummy magazine that is filled with as many lead bullets as I can get in it to make the pistol just a little bit heavier than normal at the beginning of a string. Some people fill a magazine with lead, but since I don't cast I didn't want to bother dealing with molten lead. I have heard of hanging a weight on a string from the pistol and doing holding exercises.

Grip and Wrist strengthening exercises help, but be careful not to cause repetitive stress or carpal tunnel issues. I don't have enough knowledge to say what should or should not be done. I use Pow'r Putty to improve my grip strength.

Core strength helps maintain a steady position and hold.

Also look at you position. I find that when I change my angle to the target, some positions are more stable than others.
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Post by -TT- on 7/29/2020, 11:17 am

SteveT wrote:Also look at you position. I find that when I change my angle to the target, some positions are more stable than others.

Absolutely agree. The angle of your arm to the line across your shoulders will completely change the muscles involved. If it's straight-ahead (90 degrees) versus angled (about 150) versus side-to-side (180), you'll find that slight rotations of your stance will change things a lot, because different muscles are engaged. Also, if your recoil allows it, try bending your elbow slightly. Locking the elbow requires the shoulder to do more work.

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Post by mikemyers on 7/29/2020, 11:22 am

SteveT wrote:Arm strengthening exercises and holding exercises should be limited to 3lbs or less...Raise a......gun......up to your firing position hold for 30 seconds, then lower for 30 seconds........draw small, slow, controlled figure-eights with the weight to work all the muscles..........with a dummy magazine that is filled with...lead bullets.....
I've been doing something like this, but I think I will combine what you wrote into one process, to repeat some number of times.  I also like your idea of drawing a figure-8 or something similar.

On the app I programmed, there is about a 25 second gap between each holding drill, with 25 repetitions. I'll modify what I'm doing to be like what you just described.
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Post by CR10X on 7/30/2020, 5:54 am

A "shaky"  hold as one ages is an important issues for us older shooters.  (Can't believe we can do multiple pages on loading a .32 ACP but this issue seems to lag behind!)

Anyway, it is an issue and it takes lots of work just to slow down the ravages of time on our bodies.  And all the physical suggestions above will help.  

Here is something to try when shooting.  

One thing is to go back to shooting on blank targets.  This will help in two very important areas.  First, we will not be distracted by fighting our hold into a smaller area and we can focus more on looking for the patters of our (somewhat increased) wobble area.

Secondly, and more importantly, by shooting on a blank target and reducing the "fear or anticipation", or trying to shoot the shot when we think we see that fleeting instant our wobbling hold is best, we can "free up" the trigger operation (trigger finger) so it will not try to "pick off" the shots, but can operate smoothly and without undue hesitation.  

And we all know anticipation is the mother of hesitation, and anticipation makes us hold even longer.  More importantly about freeing up the trigger, is that we will reduce the sympathetic action of the other fingers (changing the grip pressure) when "trying" to operate the trigger finger to get the gun to go off.  We will generally find that the really "wild" shots will occur when we unconsciously are increasing pressure or changing the grip of the other fingers in conjunction with "trying" to get the trigger to go off when we "want" to rather then having a smooth and almost unconscious trigger process.   (Hint, look at all the other fingers when we get those "big flyer 8s, 7s, etc.)

Remember, the most important part of shooting is how well we hold the gun parallel to our intended line of flight, not how much we wobble.  So as we wobble more, the more our attention should come back the the gun and away from the target!  Work on keeping the gun aligned, not necessarily still. (Those are two entirely different things!)  Shoot open sights if you can so you can see what you're doing to the gun or focus on keeping the dot in the center of the tube, more important than exactly where it is on the target.

No, we may not shoot as good as we used to, but we can do our best to work on shooting better than we did yesterday. (Sounds kinda funny but it works out that way more often than you would think.)

CR

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Post by chopper on 7/30/2020, 8:51 am

Cecil, Jon worked on my gun and I wanted a trigger with a small roll to it, I'm liking it a lot. My shoulder has been sore so I took off the 9000 and put on a UltraDot 30mm and that helped. 
 I was wondering if using more pinky pressure is bad for my grip, it makes me feel like I'm getting a more solid hold?
 You explained your training plans very well, I understand them better that way.
 Thank you, Stan

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Post by mikemyers on 7/30/2020, 1:01 pm

chopper wrote:.....My shoulder has been sore so I took off the 9000 and put on a UltraDot 30mm and that helped.....
Maybe it's just ne, because of strength issues, but after so many people here, along with Dave Salyer, suggested a one-inch Matchdot, I bought one.  
My Matchdot II with the heavy duty mounting rings weighed 10.3 ounces.
My one inch Ultradot with the stock (light) mounting rings weighs 5.5 ounces.

My body greatly prefers the lighter sight up on top.  The gun feels lighter, along with more "balanced".  

Many people in the past have suggested this, but I kept resisting.  I wish I bought one years ago.
(I do have a better set of mounting rings on order.)
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Post by chopper on 7/30/2020, 2:19 pm

mikemyers wrote:

(I do have a better set of mounting rings on order.)
 Mike, I used to use the Matchdot and still do on my Victor and Nelson they work real nice. I had a UltraDot 30 mm. I swapped on the 45 and it's nicer.
 I was going to suggest a Weaver mount, they are light weight and Walmart carries them for like $8 or $9. I used them for a 1" UltraDot on 45. If you already order some rings then I'm sure they'll be some nice ones.

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Post by CR10X on 7/30/2020, 2:31 pm

I was wondering if using more pinky pressure is bad for my grip, it makes me feel like I'm getting a more solid hold?

We were given 4 fingers and an opposable thumb and I would suggest using all you have in the best way you can put them together to make the best shot you can.  It doesn't really matter too much how little or how much of what you have is being used.  

The trick is to get the trigger finger to move ALONE without any of the other appendages trying to help out and the rest of the grip remaining firm and consistent.  Some people do that better with all the other fingers and even the thumb down; some do it better with no "pinkie" and thumb up or neutral. 

In other words, as long as all the other fingers and thumb stay silent and lets the trigger finger speak, it will be OK.  And you get that much more leverage on the gun to help with the grip feeling secure.   (Personally, I use all 4 fingers with about equal pressure and thumb down to grip the gun.) 

CR

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Post by mikemyers on 7/30/2020, 7:53 pm

chopper wrote:
mikemyers wrote:

(I do have a better set of mounting rings on order.)
 Mike, I used to use the Matchdot and still do on my Victor and Nelson they work real nice. I had a UltraDot 30 mm. I swapped on the 45 and it's nicer.
 I was going to suggest a Weaver mount, they are light weight and Walmart carries them for like $8 or $9. I used them for a 1" UltraDot on 45. If you already order some rings then I'm sure they'll be some nice ones.
Suggestion - take a good look at Jon's custom rail that he used to sell here.  Very nice, and if you check out the bottom, you'll see how much he has lightened it.  
If you use it on an Aimpoint with Kodiak mount, you need to open up a notch.

If you've never seen one, I may still have a spare, which I can take a picture of.

About mounting rings, I bought a set from Optics Planet.  They probably cost too much, but you loosen two nuts, and the whole assembly, rings and sight comes off the gun, and amazingly, when I put it back on, the sight needs no adjustment.  They're also slightly heavier.

Found the thread:
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t11310-1911-scope-rail?highlight=rail

Unstable hold Jone_r11

Unstable hold Jone_r13

An unstable hold is inversely proportional to the weight of the sight and rail, at least for me.
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